Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 06:35 29 Mar 2024
- Bus plunges off South Africa bridge, killing 45
- Easter getaway begins with flood alerts in place
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
29th Mar (1913)
Foundation of National Union or Railwaymen (*)

Train RunningCancelled
06:24 Newbury to Bedwyn
06:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington
07:00 Bedwyn to Newbury
07:22 Newbury to Bedwyn
07:49 Bedwyn to Newbury
08:13 Newbury to Bedwyn
08:46 Bedwyn to Newbury
09:54 Bedwyn to Newbury
10:22 Newbury to Bedwyn
11:29 Newbury to Bedwyn
11:57 Bedwyn to Newbury
12:52 Bedwyn to Newbury
Short Run
04:54 Plymouth to London Paddington
05:23 Hereford to London Paddington
05:33 Plymouth to London Paddington
05:55 Plymouth to London Paddington
06:00 Bedwyn to London Paddington
06:37 Plymouth to London Paddington
07:03 London Paddington to Paignton
07:38 Bristol Temple Meads to Penzance
07:40 Bristol Temple Meads to Westbury
08:35 Plymouth to London Paddington
10:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids
Delayed
23:45 London Paddington to Penzance
05:03 Penzance to London Paddington
06:05 Penzance to London Paddington
07:10 Penzance to London Paddington
08:03 London Paddington to Penzance
08:15 Penzance to London Paddington
09:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
09:37 London Paddington to Paignton
10:04 London Paddington to Penzance
11:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
PollsOpen and recent polls
Closed 2024-03-25 Easter Escape - to where?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 29, 2024, 06:41:20 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[82] would you like your own LIVE train station departure board?
[76] West Wiltshire Bus Changes April 2024
[74] Reversing Beeching - bring heritage and freight lines into the...
[67] Return of the BRUTE?
[57] Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption el...
[46] 2024 - Service update and amendment log, Swindon <-> Westbury...
 
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3
  Print  
Author Topic: Network Rail to abolish station toilet charges in 2019  (Read 7293 times)
Surrey 455
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1229


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2018, 13:13:27 »

I'd forgotten about Clapham Junction. The toilet provision there is very poor. Just one small toilet for 17 platforms stuck at the end of the footbridge by the Brighton Yard entrance.
Logged
Timmer
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6293


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2018, 14:10:58 »

I'd forgotten about Clapham Junction. The toilet provision there is very poor. Just one small toilet for 17 platforms stuck at the end of the footbridge by the Brighton Yard entrance.
Yeah and they have the audacity to charge for them pretty disgusting the last time I used them.
Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5398



View Profile
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2018, 14:17:54 »

This may increase the reliability and availability of toilets on trains.
At present I suspect that many passengers use the free on train toilets instead of the paid for facilities at stations.

Free toilets at stations should reduce on train demand, and hopefully reduce the number of empty water tanks and/or full waste tanks.

However my natural cynicism suggests a couple of other less favourable outcomes, firstly it could be used to justify the introduction of more "metro style" trains without toilets, Crossrail has shown the way here.
Secondly, it could be used to justify the removal of some toilets on existing trains in order to provide "thousands of extra seats" as an alternative to full length trains.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Timmer
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6293


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2018, 14:32:13 »

Secondly, it could be used to justify the removal of some toilets on existing trains in order to provide "thousands of extra seats" as an alternative to full length trains.
This has already happened on newer trains even in the later days of BR (British Rail(ways)) when you compare an HST (High Speed Train) set and a rake of Mk4 coaches with one toilet per carriage on a Mk4 compared to two per carriage on a Mk3. Though FGW (First Great Western) removed two toilets from coaches A and H as was.
Logged
hassaanhc
Full Member
***
Posts: 79


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2018, 16:22:09 »

I'd forgotten about Clapham Junction. The toilet provision there is very poor. Just one small toilet for 17 platforms stuck at the end of the footbridge by the Brighton Yard entrance.
It indeed is. Although still marginally better than nearby Putney, which has nothing at all for a station that had almost 9 million passengers in 2016-17 Roll Eyes then there is Vauxhall with nothing either, and that had 22.5 million passengers in 2016-17, although at least the bus station outside has toilets.
Logged
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4256


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2018, 19:04:07 »

Or to take another view of it, at least the charge at British stations (and generally at British public toilets) is a simple charge to enter the facilities; in some places it's a separate charge for each of urinal, cubicle, toilet paper, handwashing, and though the total may only be the same as the 30p or whatever it is here, there's an obvious incentive to skip procedures...
Logged

Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10096


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2018, 20:59:10 »

Secondly, it could be used to justify the removal of some toilets on existing trains in order to provide "thousands of extra seats" as an alternative to full length trains.
This has already happened on newer trains even in the later days of BR (British Rail(ways)) when you compare an HST (High Speed Train) set and a rake of Mk4 coaches with one toilet per carriage on a Mk4 compared to two per carriage on a Mk3. Though FGW (First Great Western) removed two toilets from coaches A and H as was.

One toilet per carriage on a long distance train is usually adequate, as long as they are all in serviceable condition.  I think all new national rail stock should have to have at least one toilet, Crossrail trains should have two.
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
Rhydgaled
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1500


View Profile WWW
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2018, 21:31:48 »

One toilet per carriage on a long distance train is usually adequate, as long as they are all in serviceable condition.  I think all new national rail stock should have to have at least one toilet, Crossrail trains should have two.
I think it should be one toilet per coach on intercity and regional trains and perhaps one per 2-3 coaches on suburban stock (including Crossrail).

Secondly, it could be used to justify the removal of some toilets on existing trains in order to provide "thousands of extra seats" as an alternative to full length trains.
This has already happened on newer trains even in the later days of BR (British Rail(ways)) when you compare an HST (High Speed Train) set and a rake of Mk4 coaches with one toilet per carriage on a Mk4 compared to two per carriage on a Mk3. Though FGW (First Great Western) removed two toilets from coaches A and H as was.
I think I read somewhere that mark 3s are being reduced from two toilets to one due to the need to install retention tanks (two loos might fill the tank up faster?Huh). I'm not sure if that's true, but since the mrk4s have retention tanks (I think), that could be the reason they only have one loo per coach... Rather alarmingly, Angel Trains' website appears to show no toilet on their 158s (click the 'view carriage blueprints' button to view the full interior layout). Ditto the 153 page (which also has a rather strange looking photo of a 150).
Logged

----------------------------
Don't DOO (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) it, keep the guard (but it probably wouldn't be a bad idea if the driver unlocked the doors on arrival at calling points).
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40690



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2018, 23:14:05 »

Rather alarmingly, Angel Trains' website appears to show no toilet on their 158s (click the 'view carriage blueprints' button to view the full interior layout). Ditto the 153 page (which also has a rather strange looking photo of a 150).

As things stand, the 153s cannot run as single carriage trains beyond 2020, I don't think. That's because their present loos are not equality compliant.   A number of possible solutions including:
1. Fit a disabled loo (but you remove quite a number of seats from an already-tiny offering
2. Replace the loo with more seats (but you have problems of trains with no toilets)
3. Withdraw them from service (but will we ever have enough stock?)
4. Run them purely as strengtheners to other units which have disable loos.
5. Couple them in permanent pairs with one of the pair having a big loo and the other no loo at all
6. Provide a dispensation to allow them to continue as they are
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
JayMac
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 18894



View Profile
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2018, 00:07:28 »

153s in their present guise can run beyond 31st December 2019.

The same goes for any passenger rail vehicle that isn't Equality Act compliant.

All that's needed is an exemption to the Act, which can be granted by the Secretary of State. Section 183(1) of said Act permits this.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/183

I fully expect we'll see some exemptions granted.
Logged

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

- Sir Terry Pratchett.
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40690



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2018, 00:10:42 »

153s in their present guise can run beyond 31st December 2019.

The same goes for any passenger rail vehicle that isn't Equality Act compliant.

All that's needed is an exemption to the Act, which can be granted by the Secretary of State. Section 183(1) of said Act permits this.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/183

I fully expect we'll see some exemptions granted.

so option (6) of my list is your bet Grin
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
PhilWakely
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2007



View Profile
« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2018, 07:58:25 »


As things stand, the 153s cannot run as single carriage trains beyond 2020, I don't think. That's because their present loos are not equality compliant.   A number of possible solutions including:
....
5. Couple them in permanent pairs with one of the pair having a big loo and the other no loo at all
..

You mean, reinstate the Class 155 with modifications to the toilet.
Logged
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4256


View Profile
« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2018, 12:34:52 »

Rather alarmingly, Angel Trains' website appears to show no toilet on their 158s (click the 'view carriage blueprints' button to view the full interior layout). Ditto the 153 page (which also has a rather strange looking photo of a 150).

As things stand, the 153s cannot run as single carriage trains beyond 2020, I don't think. That's because their present loos are not equality compliant.   A number of possible solutions including:
1. Fit a disabled loo (but you remove quite a number of seats from an already-tiny offering
2. Replace the loo with more seats (but you have problems of trains with no toilets)
3. Withdraw them from service (but will we ever have enough stock?)
4. Run them purely as strengtheners to other units which have disable loos.
5. Couple them in permanent pairs with one of the pair having a big loo and the other no loo at all
6. Provide a dispensation to allow them to continue as they are
So one solution to the problem of the loo not being accessible to all would be to get rid of the loo for everyone? As is fairly often the case, equality and fairness come into conflict.  Undecided
Logged

Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 12334


View Profile Email
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2018, 11:41:23 »

Are there any stations where TOCs (Train Operating Company) charge?

Chiltern - Marylebone

So, reading through the posts above, my understanding is that it will take Network Rail at least a year just to disable some existing toilet turnstiles and change machines at their stations -  but they intend to install new drinking fountains, 'starting with Charing Cross', within one month.

What am I missing?  Huh

Who's going to pay for the security that will now be needed to keep out undesirables? And who know gets the cleaning costs unsubsidised?

Yup - NR» (Network Rail - home page). New budget starts next year....nothing in current budget.
Logged
TaplowGreen
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7747



View Profile
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2018, 11:52:36 »

Are there any stations where TOCs (Train Operating Company) charge?

Chiltern - Marylebone

So, reading through the posts above, my understanding is that it will take Network Rail at least a year just to disable some existing toilet turnstiles and change machines at their stations -  but they intend to install new drinking fountains, 'starting with Charing Cross', within one month.

What am I missing?  Huh

Who's going to pay for the security that will now be needed to keep out undesirables? And who know gets the cleaning costs unsubsidised?

Yup - NR» (Network Rail - home page). New budget starts next year....nothing in current budget.

......hark.....I hear the first "Oooooooooooooos gunna pay for it?" of Spring!  Grin
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 [2] 3
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page