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Author Topic: Trimode cl 769 to operate Reading to Oxford and Gatwick.  (Read 88982 times)
eightonedee
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« Reply #225 on: March 05, 2022, 12:48:09 pm »

As a non-engineer who struggles to follow some of this (but very grateful to Stuving and others for trying to explain) can I add a few (largely anecdotal) points from a user of the North Downs Line?

Wikipedia informs us that each coach of a Turbo has a 350 hp/261 kW engine, so currently if all engines are working that's 1050 bhp/783 kW for a three coach train. Even then, in poor railhead conditions in autumn wheelspin has been a regular feature of the journey on the gradients around Sandhurst.

There have been journeys I have been on when an engine has been "out" on a coach when the Turbo (hint for those who will be using then when they eventually get to the West Country - it's the quietest and most restful part of Turbo travel if you travel in the coach without a working engine), and they have coped, but that still puts 700 hp down for a three coach train with the traction helped by the weight being over the active traction equipment. And I assume that a "conventional" hydraulic transmission does not suffer the power generation issues canvassed above.
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« Reply #226 on: March 06, 2022, 07:08:42 am »

As a non-engineer who struggles to follow some of this (but very grateful to Stuving and others for trying to explain) can I add a few (largely anecdotal) points from a user of the North Downs Line?

Wikipedia informs us that each coach of a Turbo has a 350 hp/261 kW engine, so currently if all engines are working that's 1050 bhp/783 kW for a three coach train. Even then, in poor railhead conditions in autumn wheelspin has been a regular feature of the journey on the gradients around Sandhurst.

There have been journeys I have been on when an engine has been "out" on a coach when the Turbo (hint for those who will be using then when they eventually get to the West Country - it's the quietest and most restful part of Turbo travel if you travel in the coach without a working engine), and they have coped, but that still puts 700 hp down for a three coach train with the traction helped by the weight being over the active traction equipment. And I assume that a "conventional" hydraulic transmission does not suffer the power generation issues canvassed above.

The service operated with class 117 type DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) which were 300 hp per power car for a 3 car a total of 600 hp.  Those DMU had a less efficient transmission.

Part of the reason I suspect for the higher power rating originally for the 165/6 would have been for increased acceleration to improve journey times on the Thames Valley NSE (Network South East) timetable in the early 1990's
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eightonedee
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« Reply #227 on: March 08, 2022, 08:24:38 am »

This morning there are 3 769s at the west end of the Reading depot, one of which has been vandalised by an aerosol paint attack.

How often has this happened to rolling stock before it enters service?
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grahame
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« Reply #228 on: March 08, 2022, 09:26:15 am »

This morning there are 3 769s at the west end of the Reading depot, one of which has been vandalised by an aerosol paint attack.

How often has this happened to rolling stock before it enters service?

There is a good argument that suggests that this rolling stock entered service between 1987 and 1990, and what's happening now is a mid-life upgrade. Not uncommon for stock to be put out to grass, face the ravages of weather and vandalism, and then be brought back - what is different here is that it has been brought back and refurbished and THEN been vandalised!
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« Reply #229 on: March 08, 2022, 10:33:24 am »

If they can't prevent trains from being vandalised at Reading Depot, where can they?

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« Reply #230 on: March 08, 2022, 10:38:51 am »

Reading depot is quite an easy target for the determined individual - very long and with little used roads and tracks nearby and not overlooked by anything other than the main railway lines at the western end.

North Pole is probably the best protected as it has all of the fencing put in that used to protect the Eurostar trains.
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« Reply #231 on: March 08, 2022, 03:17:12 pm »

It's interesting to note there have been a number of additional posts in the thread on RailUK Forums that I quoted previously. Several have dismissed the original comments about the 769 class not being able to handle the climbs on the North Downs Line as being nothing more than 'mess room gossip'. Some members there have said that the Northern and TfW's 769s are regularly managing climbs on diesel power that are steeper than anything on the NDL.
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« Reply #232 on: March 08, 2022, 05:13:49 pm »

They will be able handle the climbs.  They won’t be able to handle them quite as well as Turbos when on diesel.  The big issue is if one engine isn’t working - that leaves only one left and then they will struggle - especially during Autumn.  The engines are proving unreliable.
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« Reply #233 on: March 09, 2022, 11:52:09 am »

The service operated with class 117 type DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) which were 300 hp per power car for a 3 car a total of 600 hp.  Those DMU had a less efficient transmission.

Part of the reason I suspect for the higher power rating originally for the 165/6 would have been for increased acceleration to improve journey times on the Thames Valley NSE (Network South East) timetable in the early 1990's

I remember drivers occasionally having to change down on the 117s out of Guildford (3rd to 2nd I think at about the "half way" point), maybe more frequently during leaf fall as not as much speed had been picked up at the bottom of the slope.

The turbos tend to be going a fair old lick at the bottom and power their way through.
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« Reply #234 on: March 10, 2022, 06:56:59 pm »

These are a long way from introduction - driver training can't start until ASLEF» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) sign the units off, and there are recognised adjustments required before they can be accepted in service. It was thought very unlikely they'll make the May timetable change.
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« Reply #235 on: March 20, 2022, 09:39:39 pm »

GWR (Great Western Railway) was so full of promises back on 26/08/20:

https://news.gwr.com/news/great-western-railway-receives-the-uk-s-first-tri-mode-train

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GWR has received the first train in the UK (United Kingdom) able to run on overhead and third-rail electric lines, as well as under its own diesel power, which is expected to be introduced on services between Reading and Gatwick by early 2021.

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Provided by Porterbrook Leasing, the first of 19 Class 769 Flex trains has arrived at GWR’s Reading Depot for an extensive programme of staff training and testing.

Offering more carriages than the trains they are replacing, the Class 769 fleet was specially commissioned by GWR to be able to run under overhead wires in London and the Thames Valley, and to take advantage of third rail provision where it exists on the North Downs line. The trains will support GWR to realise long-held plans to expand services over the North Downs line between Reading and Redhill and then through to Gatwick.

The trains will enable the release of some of GWR’s diesel-powered Turbo trains to add capacity in the Bristol area and support the ability to launch new routes through the city.

The innovative fleet of tri-mode trains will operate in four-carriage sets which have been refurbished inside and out, with free WiFi and power at each seat, air cooling, bigger luggage racks, and new seat covers. Equipped with new diesel engines and combined with their electric capability, each Class 769 will offer a quieter and cleaner experience for customers than the trains they are replacing.

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GWR Head of Fleet Production John Murphy said:

“A lot of hard work has been done to make sure people feel that they can travel safely at the present time, and that includes running more trains and carriages to make extra room.

“Planning is well under way for a further uplift in services in mid-September, re-introducing even more services across the GWR network to help accommodate a return to travel for school, college or for work and adding some new services for the first time.

“This news shows we have not stopped looking at ways to further improve our service for customers.”

On the GWR North Downs line, the trains will facilitate a return to usual Sunday frequencies of two trains an hour, and the ability to run three trains per hour from Reading to Redhill on Saturdays. GWR is working with industry partners to extend this to further off-peak weekday services as well as extending these through to Gatwick Airport, as works at the station are completed.

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We’re currently seeing the biggest investment in the network since Brunel so we can offer more trains, more seats, and shorter, more frequent journeys and continue the network’s heritage of helping connect more businesses to new and prosperous markets. Through a series of initiatives we aim to be a good neighbour to the communities we serve and are committed to making a positive social impact in those regions.
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bobm
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« Reply #236 on: May 20, 2022, 07:45:01 pm »

I noticed some residing in the up carriage sidings at Oxford on Tuesday.

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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #237 on: May 20, 2022, 08:02:28 pm »

Part of a training programme for local graffiti artists.
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TonyN
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« Reply #238 on: July 08, 2022, 04:17:31 pm »

Not good news.

Northern have instructed drivers of 769's to run on Diesel at all times due to Interferance with signalling equipment.
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stuving
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« Reply #239 on: July 08, 2022, 05:02:20 pm »

Not good news.

Northern have instructed drivers of 769's to run on Diesel at all times due to Interferance with signalling equipment.

Followed by better news - that order was in place for four weeks and rescinded on 20th June. It always was a "play it safe" overreaction while diagnosing the fault which, being the VCB (Vacuum Circuit Breaker - electrification), was an unchanged part of the original 319. 
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