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October 18, 2018, 12:01:47 pm *
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Author Topic: Trimode cl 769 to operate Reading to Oxford and Gatwick.  (Read 5150 times)
Noggin
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« Reply #45 on: August 17, 2018, 02:33:33 pm »

Noggin  - the answer to your question is - both! It is a shame that the short-sighted decision to halt electrification has led to what appears to be a looming rolling stock crisis as the Turbos are cascaded to replace trains that are not too much older which are being transferred elsewhere, but services which were (presumably) assumed to be electrified by now (Didcot - Oxford, the Henley and Windsor branches) now have to be served by something that does not need OHL electicity. Recycled late 1980s stopgaps do not look an attractive substitute.

Does your source indicate if the problem is corrosion of these ageing trains, or simply that the weight of engines and generators is too much for the structure? Either way, it is not looking good.

I believe that one of the original problems was one of electrical engineering - complications in having two motor/generator sets wired together, I believe the second was a combination of weight and corrosion. Shame, as the concept was quite a good one in theory.

Of course since the project was started, Stadler have entered the market with a UK version of the Flirt bi-mode (though apparently they are none too light either), so if they behave themselves when launched on Greater Anglia you have to wonder whether the prospective customers for the 769s will cut their losses and buy new trains.

The other thing to consider is that battery technology continues to advance, so it's not necessarily a bad thing for the Thames Valley branches to continue with Turbos for a few years until there's a mature solution. As for Oxford, isn't the plan that it will be wired, once the station has been rebuilt? Given that much of the line to Didcot has already been rebuilt and resignalled that *should* be a relatively quick and cheap job, which might encourage further work.     

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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #46 on: August 17, 2018, 02:45:37 pm »

I can see a rebuilt station at Oxford being at least five years away.  Hopefully they can construct Platform 5, electrify, and then do the main station rebuild.
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To view my cab run over the new Reading Viaduct as well as a relief line cab ride at Reading just after Platforms 12-15 opened and my 'before and after' video comparison of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/1
grahame
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« Reply #47 on: September 17, 2018, 08:49:58 pm »

First 769 Unit at Great Central Railway for testing



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ScTcNgt4cs
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bignosemac
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« Reply #48 on: September 18, 2018, 04:37:15 pm »

Looks okay sat in a siding.

It was dragged to the GCR and is yet to run under its own power.

I'm still of the the opinion that it's the wrong answer to questions made up by Porterbrook though. I think they're selling a pup to the TOCs who have ordered them.
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eightonedee
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« Reply #49 on: September 18, 2018, 06:03:28 pm »

I agree with BNM on this one, especially if they prove unreliable, and money is not spent on upgrading the interiors. Are they likely to be 5 across seating? But for what appears to be a shortage of suitable diesel units, we maybe better of keeping the Turbos for the duites for which they were designed and looking for some more comfortable stock for longer distance GWR services further west.

Incidentally, I assume the old green diesel shunter at one end is not part of the "trimode" element!
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #50 on: September 18, 2018, 06:15:19 pm »

There are too many unknowns for me to be happy coming to any conclusions or yet.  Itís encouraging to see a train (and a smart looking train externally at least) finally ready for proper testing, worrying thatís itís taken so long to get this far.
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To view my cab run over the new Reading Viaduct as well as a relief line cab ride at Reading just after Platforms 12-15 opened and my 'before and after' video comparison of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/1
bignosemac
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« Reply #51 on: September 29, 2018, 03:39:42 pm »

It lives!

The first Class 769 seen in the wild has moved under its own power for the first time, while testing on the Great Central Railway.

https://www.facebook.com/paul.biggs.7798/posts/10213648806877339
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grahame
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« Reply #52 on: September 29, 2018, 05:35:34 pm »

The first Class 769 seen in the wild ...

If you add a class 31 to the front of a 769, can you call it an "800" and use it InterCity?

Sorry - silly season
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onthecushions
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« Reply #53 on: October 10, 2018, 10:02:18 pm »


Looks like the 769 works...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcuNaAe8SOU

OTC
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #54 on: October 10, 2018, 11:19:25 pm »

Acceleration, well, initial accelaration at least, looks better than I feared it might be.
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To view my cab run over the new Reading Viaduct as well as a relief line cab ride at Reading just after Platforms 12-15 opened and my 'before and after' video comparison of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/1
Thatcham Crossing
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« Reply #55 on: October 11, 2018, 08:44:06 am »

Is it just me, but it still sounded like an EMU (traction motors?) as it was pulling away.

Acceleration looked better than a 16x.
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stuving
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« Reply #56 on: October 11, 2018, 12:49:37 pm »

Acceleration, well, initial accelaration at least, looks better than I feared it might be.

Now, don't get all excited. The concern was that the output of the two engines, even before alternator and inverter losses, was well below the continuous rating of the motors. But the motors can't draw that much power at low speed; the prime power limit only cuts in once it's got going. So, for the standing start we saw there, it should do pretty well even with only one engine! (The extra weight will penalise it a little, though.)

What will be an interesting comparison will be with the Stadler bi-modes GA are getting - the 4-car ones are due to get 1920 kW of prime power, compared with less (maybe much less) than 800 in a 769.

To respond to Thatcham Crossing, those 319s are old, so use classic DC traction motors, and these ones (GEC G315BZ) are famous for their whine. I heard an engine in the first carriage (with its fan whine as prominent as the exhaust), the motors on the second, nothing on the third (but then neither pantograph nor transformer should made much noise) and expected to hear another engine in the fourth. I didn't, certainly not as loud as the first, so I'm not sure if it was not there, not running, or if the driver had throttled back by then.
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