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Author Topic: Trimode cl 769 to operate Reading to Oxford and Gatwick.  (Read 7598 times)
Noggin
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« Reply #45 on: August 17, 2018, 02:33:33 pm »

Noggin  - the answer to your question is - both! It is a shame that the short-sighted decision to halt electrification has led to what appears to be a looming rolling stock crisis as the Turbos are cascaded to replace trains that are not too much older which are being transferred elsewhere, but services which were (presumably) assumed to be electrified by now (Didcot - Oxford, the Henley and Windsor branches) now have to be served by something that does not need OHL electicity. Recycled late 1980s stopgaps do not look an attractive substitute.

Does your source indicate if the problem is corrosion of these ageing trains, or simply that the weight of engines and generators is too much for the structure? Either way, it is not looking good.

I believe that one of the original problems was one of electrical engineering - complications in having two motor/generator sets wired together, I believe the second was a combination of weight and corrosion. Shame, as the concept was quite a good one in theory.

Of course since the project was started, Stadler have entered the market with a UK version of the Flirt bi-mode (though apparently they are none too light either), so if they behave themselves when launched on Greater Anglia you have to wonder whether the prospective customers for the 769s will cut their losses and buy new trains.

The other thing to consider is that battery technology continues to advance, so it's not necessarily a bad thing for the Thames Valley branches to continue with Turbos for a few years until there's a mature solution. As for Oxford, isn't the plan that it will be wired, once the station has been rebuilt? Given that much of the line to Didcot has already been rebuilt and resignalled that *should* be a relatively quick and cheap job, which might encourage further work.     

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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #46 on: August 17, 2018, 02:45:37 pm »

I can see a rebuilt station at Oxford being at least five years away.  Hopefully they can construct Platform 5, electrify, and then do the main station rebuild.
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grahame
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« Reply #47 on: September 17, 2018, 08:49:58 pm »

First 769 Unit at Great Central Railway for testing



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ScTcNgt4cs
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bignosemac
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« Reply #48 on: September 18, 2018, 04:37:15 pm »

Looks okay sat in a siding.

It was dragged to the GCR and is yet to run under its own power.

I'm still of the the opinion that it's the wrong answer to questions made up by Porterbrook though. I think they're selling a pup to the TOCs who have ordered them.
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eightonedee
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« Reply #49 on: September 18, 2018, 06:03:28 pm »

I agree with BNM on this one, especially if they prove unreliable, and money is not spent on upgrading the interiors. Are they likely to be 5 across seating? But for what appears to be a shortage of suitable diesel units, we maybe better of keeping the Turbos for the duites for which they were designed and looking for some more comfortable stock for longer distance GWR services further west.

Incidentally, I assume the old green diesel shunter at one end is not part of the "trimode" element!
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #50 on: September 18, 2018, 06:15:19 pm »

There are too many unknowns for me to be happy coming to any conclusions or yet.  Itís encouraging to see a train (and a smart looking train externally at least) finally ready for proper testing, worrying thatís itís taken so long to get this far.
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To view my cab run over the new Reading Viaduct as well as a relief line cab ride at Reading just after Platforms 12-15 opened and my 'before and after' video comparison of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/1
bignosemac
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« Reply #51 on: September 29, 2018, 03:39:42 pm »

It lives!

The first Class 769 seen in the wild has moved under its own power for the first time, while testing on the Great Central Railway.

https://www.facebook.com/paul.biggs.7798/posts/10213648806877339
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grahame
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« Reply #52 on: September 29, 2018, 05:35:34 pm »

The first Class 769 seen in the wild ...

If you add a class 31 to the front of a 769, can you call it an "800" and use it InterCity?

Sorry - silly season
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onthecushions
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« Reply #53 on: October 10, 2018, 10:02:18 pm »


Looks like the 769 works...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcuNaAe8SOU

OTC
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #54 on: October 10, 2018, 11:19:25 pm »

Acceleration, well, initial accelaration at least, looks better than I feared it might be.
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Thatcham Crossing
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« Reply #55 on: October 11, 2018, 08:44:06 am »

Is it just me, but it still sounded like an EMU (traction motors?) as it was pulling away.

Acceleration looked better than a 16x.
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stuving
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« Reply #56 on: October 11, 2018, 12:49:37 pm »

Acceleration, well, initial accelaration at least, looks better than I feared it might be.

Now, don't get all excited. The concern was that the output of the two engines, even before alternator and inverter losses, was well below the continuous rating of the motors. But the motors can't draw that much power at low speed; the prime power limit only cuts in once it's got going. So, for the standing start we saw there, it should do pretty well even with only one engine! (The extra weight will penalise it a little, though.)

What will be an interesting comparison will be with the Stadler bi-modes GA are getting - the 4-car ones are due to get 1920 kW of prime power, compared with less (maybe much less) than 800 in a 769.

To respond to Thatcham Crossing, those 319s are old, so use classic DC traction motors, and these ones (GEC G315BZ) are famous for their whine. I heard an engine in the first carriage (with its fan whine as prominent as the exhaust), the motors on the second, nothing on the third (but then neither pantograph nor transformer should made much noise) and expected to hear another engine in the fourth. I didn't, certainly not as loud as the first, so I'm not sure if it was not there, not running, or if the driver had throttled back by then.
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Adelante_CCT
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« Reply #57 on: December 13, 2018, 05:27:35 pm »

A class 319 has been arriving Reading TCD over the past few days (by road) for driver training/familiarisation
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eightonedee
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« Reply #58 on: Yesterday at 10:36:47 pm »

Quote

   
Re: East - West Rail update (Oxford to Bedford) - ongoing discussion
ę Reply #190 on: January 21, 2019, 10:34:02 pm Ľ
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Quote from: eightonedee on January 21, 2019, 10:13:10 pm
1 - I sincerely hope that the Didcot/Oxford shuttle is only temporary. Indeed I understood the rationale of the bi-mode/trimode was to restore a proper full stopping service all the way between Reading and Oxford, mitigating the adverse impact of the dreadful decision to cut the electrification to Oxford short at Didcot.

2 - I am not so sure that the case for trains beyond Oxford all going west to Swindon/Bristol etc is strong. The potential passenger traffic from the Reading/Basingstoke/Winchester/Southampton/Bournemouth axis surely justifies a substantial part of any southward traffic going east. Reading alone generates considerable volume, and more capacity might encourage more to take the train not the car. I have over the years had a number of regular meeting commitments in Norfolk and Cambridgeshire and used the car to avoid the hassle of crossing London by tube at peak times.

1 - From what Iíve so far heard, the Tri-mode 769s will not be used on services to Oxford.  They will be used on Reading to Gatwick trains as well as covering for the loss of 387s to Heathrow Express on the Paddington to Didcot services, as well as possibly some of the Thames Valley branches.  That of course may not be the current plan, or it may be the current plan but will change.  Iíll see if I can find out.

Having realised that II and myself had indulged in a little "thread drift" on the East-West thread, I've brought this topic home.

This morning, during a mildly frustrating commute (one delay, resulting in missed connection, next onward train cancelled - near half hour wait at Reading) I arrived at the end of platforms 4-6, to find the duty manager and a GWR "suit" who introduced himself as Mark (not that one!) discussing erecting barriers in the vicinity. Concerned that someone might have thought it a good idea to introduce another internal gate line, thereby making it even more of a challenge to make my connections in the limited time often available, I butted in to enquire, and was relieved to hear that it was some movable tape barriers to help deal with future Reading - Paddington closures and diverting London bound passengers to Waterloo.

We had a chat about some concerns, during which I was told that GWR did intend to introduce class 769 bi-modes to restore a full Reading- Oxford stopping service in the coming year. Furthermore I was told GWR still hoped to introduce a third service each hour on the North Downs line, preferably a semi-fast Gatwick and some to run from Oxford.

Incidentally there seems a growing collection of ex-Thameslink 319s at Reading depot, but as far as I can see from the passing train they don't look to have any additional underfloor gubbins by way of diesel engines, generators etc. Anyone know why?
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #59 on: Yesterday at 11:31:04 pm »

We had a chat about some concerns, during which I was told that GWR did intend to introduce class 769 bi-modes to restore a full Reading- Oxford stopping service in the coming year. Furthermore I was told GWR still hoped to introduce a third service each hour on the North Downs line, preferably a semi-fast Gatwick and some to run from Oxford.

Well, I do hope they are correct as I would love to see a full Reading to Oxford stopping service restored this year, but I suspect that won't happen, indeed I doubt the full order of 769s will even be delivered this year!  If it does come about, I hope it doesn't come at the expense of losing any direct stopping services between stations east and west of Reading that the current Didcot to Paddington service covers.  If the status quo remains in that respect, and all of the Paddington to Didcot stoppers are extended to Oxford then you need 9 units just to cover the current 30-minute frequency with a 4-car train - sounds unlikely to me. 

If you were to just run them between Reading and Oxford then you could cover them with 5 4-car units which is more plausible, but more challenging operationally juggling platforms at Reading.  The best I personally think that can be hoped for is that the existing Reading to Oxford peak and shoulder peak through services become operated by 769s.  Should I find anything out for definite I will keep you updated.

Incidentally there seems a growing collection of ex-Thameslink 319s at Reading depot, but as far as I can see from the passing train they don't look to have any additional underfloor gubbins by way of diesel engines, generators etc. Anyone know why?

They are there for depot staff familiarisation with regard to learning how to maintain them as of course they share many of the components the 796s will arrive with.  I have heard that the option to press them and other spare 319s into service to cover for the 387s going to HEx conversion might well be taken up, though I have also heard that spare IETs not required until the big timetable change next January might also cover the impending 387 shortage.  I guess at least that means GWR have two possible solutions to that particular problem.
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To view my cab run over the new Reading Viaduct as well as a relief line cab ride at Reading just after Platforms 12-15 opened and my 'before and after' video comparison of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/1
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