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Author Topic: Trimode cl 769 to operate Reading to Oxford and Gatwick.  (Read 20931 times)
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« Reply #75 on: February 14, 2020, 06:28:15 pm »

They should be fine on AC - though with limited opportunities to use it.  There is a massive scarcity of pure diesel trains (other than new orders, which isnít really an option for any franchises under a short-term direct award), so itís as much about capacity as anything else.

Though it will be a great shame if they canít use DC, even if not immediately.

Depends on the traction pack and the levels of signal immunisation, just needs to acceptance to be carried out, but the TOC has to pay to have this done and the NoBo
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Mark Carne 26 June 2015 - "The challenges of delivering myriad improvement projects while still running a railway seven days a week were simply overwhelming".
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« Reply #76 on: February 14, 2020, 07:16:48 pm »

They should be fine on AC - though with limited opportunities to use it.  There is a massive scarcity of pure diesel trains (other than new orders, which isnít really an option for any franchises under a short-term direct award), so itís as much about capacity as anything else.

Though it will be a great shame if they canít use DC, even if not immediately.

Depends on the traction pack and the levels of signal immunisation, just needs to acceptance to be carried out, but the TOC has to pay to have this done and the NoBo

I presume that's a reference to proving on additional routes, after the "new" train has been approved (with all that paperwork) and tested somewhere at Porterbrook's cost. I found this in a Rail Engineer article (which isn't responding now) - from a visit/interview mainly with Helen Simpson (engineering innovation and development manager of Porterbrook):
Quote
Approvals

Helen talked about the compliance and approval process. The modification is not considered an upgrade or renewal and does not require authorisation under the common safety method for risk evaluation and assessment, although this process has been voluntarily applied as a robust means of managing safety. SNC-Lavalin is providing integrated Notified Body, Designated Body and Assessment Body services.

Full details of this process would justify its own article, and Helen described some of the challenges applying the approval process mandated by the Technical Standards for Interoperability (TSI) regulations on a 30-year-old train. For example, TSI noise requirements do not apply, but pass-by noise will be compared to other DMUs operating the same services on the route; in the case of the Northern trains, this means comparing with the Class 15X units. Porterbrook needs to show it is no worse, but is actually aiming for it to be a demonstrable improvement. This, and other type approval testing, was expected to be carried out at the nearby Great Central Railway.

Of course they may have discovered Hofstadter's law applies to NR's approvals requirements.

The plan was to not change the traction at all, just feed it from an on-board generator-alternator-converter. Rather oddly, the shoe gear would be put somewhere new (and perhaps be new itself?). But something must have delayed the programme - by what, a year and a bit? - and that might include some rethinking of that plan, though I've not seen any mention of it.
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SandTEngineer
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« Reply #77 on: February 14, 2020, 09:50:45 pm »

According to info posted elsewhere there are going to be 19 class 769s and a naming list has been drawn up based on mythical characters. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #78 on: February 15, 2020, 10:02:38 am »

According to info posted elsewhere there are going to be 19 class 769s and a naming list has been drawn up based on mythical characters. Roll Eyes

Very appropriate.
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grahame
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« Reply #79 on: February 15, 2020, 10:52:42 am »

According to info posted elsewhere there are going to be 19 class 769s and a naming list has been drawn up based on mythical characters. Roll Eyes

Very appropriate.

Quite a few have been used before ... https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/mythology/characters/ may give some ideas.

I was wondering how serious the original suggestion was.
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« Reply #80 on: February 16, 2020, 12:01:23 pm »

They should be fine on AC - though with limited opportunities to use it.  There is a massive scarcity of pure diesel trains (other than new orders, which isnít really an option for any franchises under a short-term direct award), so itís as much about capacity as anything else.

Though it will be a great shame if they canít use DC, even if not immediately.

Depends on the traction pack and the levels of signal immunisation, just needs to acceptance to be carried out, but the TOC has to pay to have this done and the NoBo

I presume that's a reference to proving on additional routes, after the "new" train has been approved (with all that paperwork) and tested somewhere at Porterbrook's cost. I found this in a Rail Engineer article (which isn't responding now) - from a visit/interview mainly with Helen Simpson (engineering innovation and development manager of Porterbrook):
Quote
Approvals

Helen talked about the compliance and approval process. The modification is not considered an upgrade or renewal and does not require authorisation under the common safety method for risk evaluation and assessment, although this process has been voluntarily applied as a robust means of managing safety. SNC-Lavalin is providing integrated Notified Body, Designated Body and Assessment Body services.

Full details of this process would justify its own article, and Helen described some of the challenges applying the approval process mandated by the Technical Standards for Interoperability (TSI) regulations on a 30-year-old train. For example, TSI noise requirements do not apply, but pass-by noise will be compared to other DMUs operating the same services on the route; in the case of the Northern trains, this means comparing with the Class 15X units. Porterbrook needs to show it is no worse, but is actually aiming for it to be a demonstrable improvement. This, and other type approval testing, was expected to be carried out at the nearby Great Central Railway.

Of course they may have discovered Hofstadter's law applies to NR's approvals requirements.

The plan was to not change the traction at all, just feed it from an on-board generator-alternator-converter. Rather oddly, the shoe gear would be put somewhere new (and perhaps be new itself?). But something must have delayed the programme - by what, a year and a bit? - and that might include some rethinking of that plan, though I've not seen any mention of it.

The 319's did not necessary have universal route clearance, the were never cleared for instance to operate through Canal Tunnels (the new Thameslink between the ECML and St Pancras) Rolling stock does not always have route clearance under "grandfather rights" on new (to it) routes
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Mark Carne 26 June 2015 - "The challenges of delivering myriad improvement projects while still running a railway seven days a week were simply overwhelming".
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