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Author Topic: Not just GWR...  (Read 3094 times)
stuving
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« Reply #45 on: June 07, 2018, 07:52:41 pm »

Inevitable the new timetable will delayed or staggered. The whole electrification project is so far behind the original planned completion dates what’s another six months.

But December 2019 is already a year later than the original "new" IET timetable, SLC3a.

Ignore that - I was thinking that date had already been delayed, I'm not sure why!

But the SLC (now SLC3b) does not say anything about a timetable in the sense of the actual train times. It defines the service frequencies, which can't be increased to meet the SLC without some quite major changes. However, there aren't the same brand new end-to-end routes that GTR had, needing a whole set of newly route-trained drivers. Hence the preparation is easier, and also the scope for gradual change to new timings is a lot greater.

The original delivery schedule said GWR should have its full fleet of IETs available on 6th July 2018 - 5 months from T-day. So question 1 is: was that ever a feasible timescale, given the first train available on MARA terms, and the end of the trainer training programme, were due on 8 June 2017?

Question 2 is about the delay in IET availability. Presumably there were at least 4 (common sense says several more) on October 16th 2017 when they started in "service". By then there were scheduled to be 20, delivered at 1 per week, suggesting a delay of 3 months or a bit less. However, what is the subsequent position? I've not seen any clear indication, but I suspect they are further behind overall, whenever the first 9-car became available.

In any case there is a question 3, to do with what else affects the conversion process - like lack of HSTs or overall driver numbers.



« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 08:00:38 pm by stuving » Logged
bignosemac
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« Reply #46 on: June 07, 2018, 07:57:05 pm »

There's a (GWR, I believe) timetable planner who posts anonymously on another rail forum. He's intimated that the planned new timetable introduction is slipping.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2018, 10:38:01 pm »

.......well doesn't that just take the cake.....



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44415339
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broadgage
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« Reply #48 on: June 08, 2018, 11:24:00 pm »

.......well doesn't that just take the cake.....



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44415339

Chocolate cake ?
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martyjon
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« Reply #49 on: June 09, 2018, 03:55:44 am »

.......well doesn't that just take the cake.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44415339

Chocolate cake ?

With hi=viz orange icing too ?
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grahame
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« Reply #50 on: June 22, 2018, 08:38:17 pm »

Here's an analysis of what went wrong with the May timetable change

Quote
What went wrong?

The May timetable change should have been good news, and in many cases it is - it ushers in one of the biggest increases in capacity in our railway's history, with additional space and travel opportunities for tens of thousands more passengers.  In many places, the new timetable is already delivering benefits, with 8 out of 10 trains running as planned overall.

However, in two parts of the country - across the Thameslink network in the South-East, and the Northern network across the North - there has been significant disruption to passengers.  Collectively, the rail industry made promises to passengers that we have not yet been able to deliver fully, and collectively we apologise for letting passengers down.

The timetable change in May 2018 was four times bigger than normal.  This level of change depends on infrastructure upgrades, rolling stock to be available, drivers to be trained and crews to be rostered. Under normal circumstances, such a timetable change would be a massive, complex, piece of work. However on this occasion, the challenge has been compounded by several different factors:

In early 2018, the Government accepted the recommendation to ‘phase in’ the new Thameslink timetable, which meant a major re-write of the new timetable for the South East was required.

In January 2018, completion of the Manchester-Bolton electrification project was delayed, due to unforeseen poor ground conditions hampering progress. This meant the whole of the new timetable for the North would need to be re-written. Matters were compounded further by the collapse of Carillion.

In March 2018, the already very challenging situation was compounded by a delay in the planned arrival of new trains in Scotland, meaning major re-writes of the new timetable for Scotland and cross-border services.
In addition, a number of operators made late changes to their timetables during the ‘adjustment’ phase of timetable planning.

We delivered a base timetable as planned in November 2017.  But the sheer number of changes subsequently meant that the timetable process took a lot longer than planned. This meant that train companies had less time to prepare for the new timetable, meaning specialist training required could not be completed in time for drivers to learn all the new routes, or operate different trains for operators to address all the logistical challenges.  Some operators also have industrial relations issues, with a ban on overtime or working on rest days, which has led to crew shortages as the new timetable beds in.

From Network Rail at https://www.networkrail.co.uk/how-rail-timetabling-works/
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #51 on: June 22, 2018, 09:02:47 pm »

Here's an analysis of what went wrong with the May timetable change

Quote
What went wrong?

The May timetable change should have been good news, and in many cases it is - it ushers in one of the biggest increases in capacity in our railway's history, with additional space and travel opportunities for tens of thousands more passengers.  In many places, the new timetable is already delivering benefits, with 8 out of 10 trains running as planned overall.

However, in two parts of the country - across the Thameslink network in the South-East, and the Northern network across the North - there has been significant disruption to passengers.  Collectively, the rail industry made promises to passengers that we have not yet been able to deliver fully, and collectively we apologise for letting passengers down.

The timetable change in May 2018 was four times bigger than normal.  This level of change depends on infrastructure upgrades, rolling stock to be available, drivers to be trained and crews to be rostered. Under normal circumstances, such a timetable change would be a massive, complex, piece of work. However on this occasion, the challenge has been compounded by several different factors:

In early 2018, the Government accepted the recommendation to ‘phase in’ the new Thameslink timetable, which meant a major re-write of the new timetable for the South East was required.

In January 2018, completion of the Manchester-Bolton electrification project was delayed, due to unforeseen poor ground conditions hampering progress. This meant the whole of the new timetable for the North would need to be re-written. Matters were compounded further by the collapse of Carillion.

In March 2018, the already very challenging situation was compounded by a delay in the planned arrival of new trains in Scotland, meaning major re-writes of the new timetable for Scotland and cross-border services.
In addition, a number of operators made late changes to their timetables during the ‘adjustment’ phase of timetable planning.

We delivered a base timetable as planned in November 2017.  But the sheer number of changes subsequently meant that the timetable process took a lot longer than planned. This meant that train companies had less time to prepare for the new timetable, meaning specialist training required could not be completed in time for drivers to learn all the new routes, or operate different trains for operators to address all the logistical challenges.  Some operators also have industrial relations issues, with a ban on overtime or working on rest days, which has led to crew shortages as the new timetable beds in.

From Network Rail at https://www.networkrail.co.uk/how-rail-timetabling-works/

Succinctly then, all round incompetence.
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #52 on: June 22, 2018, 09:10:15 pm »

You could have put that much more succinctly yourself, by selecting ‘reply’ rather than ‘quote’  Roll Eyes
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Trowres
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« Reply #53 on: June 28, 2018, 12:49:11 am »

Scotland's turn on Wednesday 27th June, with Glasgow Central suffering a lack of train services from late afternoon until close-of-play.

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Due to multiple points failures we're unable to run any trains into, or out of, Glasgow Central High Level.

Maybe related to high temperatures? around 29C reached in Glasgow.
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stuving
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« Reply #54 on: June 28, 2018, 07:43:50 am »

Scotland's turn on Wednesday 27th June, with Glasgow Central suffering a lack of train services from late afternoon until close-of-play.

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Due to multiple points failures we're unable to run any trains into, or out of, Glasgow Central High Level.

Maybe related to high temperatures? around 29C reached in Glasgow.

"Multiple points failures" just outside the high level station, attributed in one press report to the high temperatures. That's possible, in that one box of comms bits feeling unwell could do that, but then again it could be confused media messages.
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Trowres
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« Reply #55 on: June 28, 2018, 08:59:40 am »

Multiple points failures was how the twitter ribbon on the NationalRail website described it. As far as I can gather, there was a failure during the afternoon affecting some services, followed later by a total breakdown.

My personal preference would be for a bit more detail over the usual "points failure" or "signalling" messages given out.

The thread on railforums contains some criticism of communications "on the ground" at Glasgow Central.
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grahame
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« Reply #56 on: June 28, 2018, 09:17:14 am »

The thread on railforums contains some criticism of communications "on the ground" at Glasgow Central.

I happened to be in Glasgow Central soon after the problems started - to get a seat reservation rather than to travel. The thing I noticed was the very heavy presence of the BTP ...
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broadgage
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« Reply #57 on: July 07, 2018, 11:30:50 pm »

The advice for Sunday 08/07/2018 is again not to travel to Brighton "unless your journey is essential" The main line is closed for engineering work and doubts exist about the adequacy of the replacement buses.

That will really help the leisure industry! And as for the oft repeated advice to "check before you travel", GTR were advertising a normal service until just before the closure.
And what about people already staying in Brighton who arrived a few days ago without any warning that returning would be "interesting"

We are often told by the railway industry that these major closures are planned far in advance and cant therefore be altered, presuming that this is true, why was almost no warning given by GTR of this closure.
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"When customers say that they want a seat, they dont mean they want to sit with their knees behind their ears so that 4 more can sit down. They mean that they want an extra coach so that 74 more can sit down"
"Capacity on intercity routes should be about number of vehicles, not compressing people"
grahame
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« Reply #58 on: July 08, 2018, 07:22:28 am »

We are often told by the railway industry that these major closures are planned far in advance and cant therefore be altered, presuming that this is true, why was almost no warning given by GTR of this closure.

There are going to be exceptional closures for emergency works at short notice.  It feels at times though that short notice closures or effective closures (no trains running) have become anything but exceptional.
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ellendune
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« Reply #59 on: July 08, 2018, 09:00:59 am »

We are often told by the railway industry that these major closures are planned far in advance and cant therefore be altered, presuming that this is true, why was almost no warning given by GTR of this closure.

There are going to be exceptional closures for emergency works at short notice.  It feels at times though that short notice closures or effective closures (no trains running) have become anything but exceptional.

Depends where the engineering works are. If they are following up the temporary repairs put in place at Streatham (I think it was) that stopped trains to Victoria, then it was not planned months in advance. 
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