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Author Topic: Rail staff told not to help disabled passengers ...  (Read 722 times)
CJB666
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« on: May 18, 2018, 05:40:06 pm »

Rail bosses have told staff not help disabled passengers board busy trains if it might the train late.

The new timetable arrangements from Southern Rail parent company Govia Thameslink Railway (GTR) come into force this weekend in an attempt to cut delays.

But they’ve been branded a ‘disgusting insult’ to disabled people by the Rail, Maritime and Transport (RMT) union.

RMT general secretary Mick Cash said rail staff have been told not to help people of reduced mobility on to trains if it might delay the service.

Mr Cash said: ‘I cannot believe, in this day and age, we are telling staff to ignore the needs of disabled people if the time it will take to deploy a ramp and assist them on to the train will cause a delay.

https://metro.co.uk/2018/05/18/rail-staff-told-not-help-disabled-passengers-board-makes-train-late-7556715/
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YouKnowNothing
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« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2018, 06:43:55 pm »

I feel a legal case coming on and someone has already suggested quoted the correct act for it.

https://twitter.com/IsambardsGhost/status/997508697478877184?s=19
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bignosemac
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« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2018, 09:04:04 pm »

More detail here:

https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2018/05/18/a-train-companys-leaked-comments-about-disabled-people-are-absolutely-fng-staggering/

Including extracts from GTR dispatch procedures booklet. Like the headline I'm staggered too. It's hard to think of a clearer breach of the Equality Act 2010. It's shocking that a train operator would actually publish a staff guide that tells front line staff to directly discriminate.

Disabled people have an equal right to board the train of their choosing. Regardless of whether the train is early, late or on time.

I predict GTR will be in court sooner rather than later.
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« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2018, 09:33:26 pm »

Need to be careful not to jump to conclusions here.

The Thameslink core (St Pancras - London Bridge) is going to be "Tube" style operation when fully up and running latter this year that's 24 tph in each direction, the dwell time at the stations is very short.  There are platform humps similar to the ones on the Underground specifically installed to aid the mobility impaired.


What GTR are asking is people to give them selves enough time (that applies to us mobile folks too) at 24 tph you will not have to wait long for the next service, staff will still assist people but what they will not do is hold a train. 
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Mark Carne 26 June 2015 - "The challenges of delivering myriad improvement projects while still running a railway seven days a week were simply overwhelming".
bignosemac
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« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2018, 09:37:59 pm »

And if they don't hold a train then that effectively means only the able bodied can board. That is direct discrimination.
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YouKnowNothing
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« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2018, 10:29:26 pm »

Correct me if I'm wrong.... but are you saying that ALL Thameslink stations will be supplied with 24 TPH? The guidance document is for all stations not just those with a consistent service.
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« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2018, 09:54:12 am »

Correct me if I'm wrong.... but are you saying that ALL Thameslink stations will be supplied with 24 TPH? The guidance document is for all stations not just those with a consistent service.

No - only what is called the core
The Thameslink core (St Pancras - London Bridge) is going to be "Tube" style operation when fully up and running latter this year that's 24 tph in each direction, the dwell time at the stations is very short.  There are platform humps similar to the ones on the Underground specifically installed to aid the mobility impaired.

However because the trains have such a wide range of origins and destinations the impact on not only Thameslink but many other TOC is immense.


I have not studied or been briefed on the station staff procedures but double very much that it will say DO NOT ASSIST MIP its more likely to be on the lines do not hold a train, the same will apply to passengers with large items of luggage or who those insist on taking full frame bikes and cannot get on or off.


I know from first hand experience of working in the TLP team the mobile impaired were considered and consulted there were working groups which involved the various charities / campaigning groups for the design of the trains and station
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Mark Carne 26 June 2015 - "The challenges of delivering myriad improvement projects while still running a railway seven days a week were simply overwhelming".
richwarwicker
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« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2018, 10:56:53 am »

What they’re saying is if the passenger isn’t ready they don’t get rushed into the train at the platform but the next one minutes later.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2018, 11:33:29 am »

What they’re saying is if the passenger isn’t ready they don’t get rushed into the train at the platform but the next one minutes later.

Seems eminently sensible.
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CJB666
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« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2018, 12:27:57 pm »

...the next one minutes later.

Sadly with all of the cancellations on the GWML and Thameslink / Southern routes this is a concept not yet implemented by Govia, GWR and TfL. et al.
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bignosemac
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« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2018, 06:15:22 pm »

What they’re saying is if the passenger isn’t ready they don’t get rushed into the train at the platform but the next one minutes later.

But if train one in the Thameslink core is a minute or three late, then so is the next one, and the next one...

It's not for rail staff to decide which train a disabled person should board. It should be the train that person wants. Whilst the core may well have a train every couple of minutes, the destination the disabled passenger wants may well not.

I have not studied or been briefed on the station staff procedures but double very much that it will say DO NOT ASSIST MIP its more likely to be on the lines do not hold a train, the same will apply to passengers with large items of luggage or who those insist on taking full frame bikes and cannot get on or off.

It's not the same. Having a big suitcase or a bike are not protected characteristics under the Equality Act.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 06:23:45 pm by bignosemac » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2018, 06:32:49 pm »

What they’re saying is if the passenger isn’t ready they don’t get rushed into the train at the platform but the next one minutes later.

But if train one in the Thameslink core is a minute or three late, then so is the next one, and the next one...

It's not for rail staff to decide which train a disabled person should board. It should be the train that person wants. Whilst the core may well have a train every couple of minutes, the destination the disabled passenger wants may well not.

I have not studied or been briefed on the station staff procedures but double very much that it will say DO NOT ASSIST MIP its more likely to be on the lines do not hold a train, the same will apply to passengers with large items of luggage or who those insist on taking full frame bikes and cannot get on or off.

It's not the same. Having a big suitcase or a bike are not protected characteristics under the Equality Act.


I doubt very much that GTR are in breach of the Equality Act, they are not barring anyone with mobility problem from traveling; indeed the Thameslink Program has done a lot of work to make the system accessible
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Mark Carne 26 June 2015 - "The challenges of delivering myriad improvement projects while still running a railway seven days a week were simply overwhelming".
bignosemac
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« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2018, 06:44:53 pm »

Time will tell.

It wouldn't surprise me if there's a legal challenge in the near future. The story has made the mainstream press and a few disability charities have expressed disappointment in the wording used in the staff booklet.
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YouKnowNothing
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« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2018, 10:08:57 pm »

Time will tell.

It wouldn't surprise me if there's a legal challenge in the near future. The story has made the mainstream press and a few disability charities have expressed disappointment in the wording used in the staff booklet.

I think the wording that has been used is incorrect. If they act to the wording in the guidance then they will fall foul of the Equality Act as they will be discriminating against a mobility impaired person. They need to revisit the guidance and ensure that a bit of common sense is used around train gap times and whether a train should be held.
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richwarwicker
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« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2018, 12:34:36 pm »

What they’re saying is if the passenger isn’t ready they don’t get rushed into the train at the platform but the next one minutes later.

But if train one in the Thameslink core is a minute or three late, then so is the next one, and the next one...

It's not for rail staff to decide which train a disabled person should board. It should be the train that person wants. Whilst the core may well have a train every couple of minutes, the destination the disabled passenger wants may well not.


I have to be there ready to board or I miss the train, so if they’re not ready for boarding they miss the train too. If it takes me 2 mins to walk across the concourse and footbridges etc I get to station at least 3 minutes before departure. If it’s going to take me 5 minutes to walk across to the platform get there 6 or 7 minutes before departure.
If you need help don’t turn up at the last seconds and expect it instantly
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