Train Graphic
Great Western Passengers' Forum Great Western Coffee Shop - [home] and [about]
Read about the forum [here]. Register and contribute [here] - it's free.
Random Image
Train Running @GWR Twitter Acronyms/Abbreviations Station Comparator Rail News GWR co. site Site Style 1 2 3 4 Chat on off
August 20, 2018, 09:24:55 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most liked recent subjects
[156] Class 802s
[91] What the Dickens?
[49] MetroBus
[39] IETs into passenger service from 16 Oct 2017 and subsequent pe...
[35] How wide do you define "London"?
[32] Imber bus
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3
  Print  
Author Topic: Thameslink  (Read 1190 times)
SandTEngineer
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2164


In a Linemans Hut in the far Southwest


View Profile
« on: June 01, 2018, 10:14:08 am »

Thought I would start a new topic (bit like the new May 2018 timetable) here.

How about this for starters? https://www.londonreconnections.com/2018/the-politics-of-thameslinks-troubles/

...and the blame game has started.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-44299902

Quote
Chris Grayling says rail industry 'has failed passengers' 30 May 2018

The transport secretary says the "rail industry has collectively failed" passengers after timetable changes caused chaos across the network.

Chris Grayling wrote to MPs over the "wholly unsatisfactory" service on Govia Thameslink Railway and Northern.

GTR said it expected disruption to ease "over the coming month" and Northern said it has commissioned a report to "ensure lessons are learned".

Mr Grayling said: "The way timetabling is done has to change."

The transport secretary also criticised Network Rail, saying it "cannot cope" with the workload, and its performance was "simply unacceptable".

He added: "We were aware there might be some disruption in the early stages of any new timetable change but the scale of the problem has far outstripped any expectation."

He said he was now in "regular contact" with Network Rail and rail companies to deal with the issues quickly.

But a Surrey rail user group earlier blamed the Department for Transport (DfT) for rail problems.

GTR runs Thameslink, Southern, Great Northern and the Gatwick Express, while Northern runs services across North of England from Newcastle to Nottingham and in Greater Manchester, Yorkshire, Cumbria and Merseyside.

Trains are frequently crowded at stations such as Harpenden, while other services are cancelled.
Stephen Trigg, of the Reigate, Redhill and District Rail Users Association, said: "Thameslink is just failing all over the place.

"This morning six out of 12 trains have disappeared from the timetable. That's before any cancellations. How do people get to work?"

Ros Southward, who set up the Hitchin Rail Commuters Group, said there was constant "stress and disruption" on the Great Northern line.

"[I'm] beyond words, I don't get it because this is supposed to have been planned for a couple of years," she said.

.....and the SoSfT is getting a little bit nervous.

Quote
Seems the Network Railís System Operator division at Milton Keynes are being made the scapegoat for this disaster as Grayling has written to MP's saying so!

I am writing to you concerning the wholly unsatisfactory levels of disruption on rail services following the huge timetable change last week.

I am frustrated that what should have been a good news story for passengers, with the introduction of new services, new routes and expanded capacity has had such a poor start.

The industry collectively has failed the passengers it serves.

A combination of delayed Network Rail infrastructure works and reduced time to plan a modified timetable meant that the new timetable was finalised much too late to permit adequate logistical planning for the timetable changes.

Network Railís System Operator division is responsible for taking all planned timetables and making sure that the plans for the whole network are workable and do not create conflicts between different types of service.

If they are unable to do so to the expected timescales, it causes chaos for the train companies.

A change on this scale requires reworking of train crew schedules, train deployment and a whole range of other complex issues that affect the running of what is a very congested service.

We were aware that there might be some disruption in the early days of any new timetable change of this size, but the scale of the problem has far outstripped any expectation.

I am determined both that the problems are dealt with as quickly as possible, and that this is not repeated in the future.

We have been in regular contact with the leadership of Network Rail and GTR in the last few days, and Jo Johnson and I are continuing to monitor the situation closely.

We are speaking to those involved on a daily basis and we have insisted that both organisations put whatever resource they need to into resolving the situation, and in making sure that there is proper leadership of the recovery effort.

We will be holding a meeting for affected colleagues as soon as the recess is over, when I hope we will be able to give you more encouraging news about the recovery effort.

I have also asked both organisations to organise a briefing meeting for MPs next week so they can explain the detail of what has gone wrong and how it is being solved.

I am also clear that the way timetabling is done has to change.

It is obvious that Network Railís current timetabling system simply cannot cope with the volume of work that it has to complete, and I have asked both the current leadership and the incoming Chief Executive, Andrew Haines, to ensure that this issue is addressed as a priority.

Network Railís current performance on this is simply unacceptable.

Until this has been done, I will insist on a gradual approach to timetable change wherever possible and not the significant changes that we have seen this month.

Once these problems are resolved, we will have a much better service for passengers.

That is small comfort to them when things are not working as they should, but once we are through this difficult period we will have a better railway.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/712161/sos-letter-to-mps-gtr.pdf
« Last Edit: June 01, 2018, 10:26:49 am by SandTEngineer » Logged

Out of this nettle, Danger, we pluck this flower, Safety.
[Henry IV, Part 1, Act 2, Scene 3]
ChrisB
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 9539


View Profile Email
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2018, 10:26:35 am »

Any election straight after Brexit would seriously concentrate on that outcome, and commuters hell on the railways would become insignificant to voters taking their ire out on the Government for not getting it right....far more important to the vast majority of voters that the relatively few ,000s in Thameslink commuterland, and thus will only have a very small impact in a very few UK-as-a-whole constituencies....

If the election isn't until 2022, ways will have been found by then to sort out the problem & it will already be fading in people's memories....and Brexit outcome may be disasterous for the UK economy by then, such that it will still be in most peoples minds as the number 1 voting intention
Logged
bignosemac
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 15802


Question everything.


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2018, 05:18:05 pm »

Failing Grayling is throwing Network Rail, which to all intents and purposes is state controlled, under a bus. He's blaming them for the Northern debacle too. Nice boss to have.  Roll Eyes

What's his agenda with Network Rail? His department have to share  blame. Its the DfT who specified these basket case franchises.
Logged

Former FGW/GWR regular passenger. No more. Despicable company.
Timmer
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4647


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2018, 07:27:05 pm »

Itís only because Northern havenít defaulted on their payments that they are still running this doomed franchise. Only a matter of time now...probably stalling for time to give DOR time to get ready to take over another failure of a franchise. Gosh I bet First wish someone would take loss making TPE off them right now.

Back to Grayling. Nothing impresses me with his running of a department which in my view isnít fit for purpose. They can blame who they like but all roads or should that be rails lead to the Dftís door.
Logged
ellendune
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2919


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2018, 07:27:13 pm »

Failing Grayling is throwing Network Rail, which to all intents and purposes is state controlled, under a bus. He's blaming them for the Northern debacle too. Nice boss to have.  Roll Eyes

What's his agenda with Network Rail? His department have to share  blame. Its the DfT who specified these basket case franchises.

As the American Philosopher Noam Chomsky Said

Quote
Like when Thatcher wanted to defund the railroads, first thing to do is defund them, then they don't work and people get angry and they want a change. You say okay, privatize them and then they get worse. In that case the government had to step in and rescue it.

And

Quote
Thatís the standard technique of privatization: defund, make sure things donít work, people get angry, you hand it over to private capital.
Logged
Electric train
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2944


The future is 25,000 Volts a.c.


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2018, 10:12:45 pm »

The Thameslink timetable from an NR point is working reasonably well, there are a few NR teething problem; however the biggest issue is the lack of preparedness of GTR.

GTR has not managed to get all of its Drive route knowledge done, eg the drivers from the East Coast / Anglia have not completed the Southern routes and vis versa.  Other things like the Kings Lyn Drivers don't sign class 700 or the Thameslink routes.


I noted that in the media there are a number of organisations / politicians (many Labour Party based) who a calling for Grayling's head, he has been called before the Select Committee I doubt they will accept him blaming NR and the TOCs without him conceding is Department had made mistakes
Logged

Mark Carne 26 June 2015 - "The challenges of delivering myriad improvement projects while still running a railway seven days a week were simply overwhelming".
4064ReadingAbbey
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 332


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2018, 11:19:29 am »

Without making any comment or judgement on Grayling's strengths and weaknesses as a politician it is clear that all the problems of the last few days, weeks and months are the direct consequences of decisions made, or even decisions which were not made, months or years earlier - long before Grayling was appointed SoS.

The solutions which need to be found are managerial, not political. If fault is to be found it is because since taking over the Strategic Rail Authority the DfT has knowingly or unknowingly supported the creation of a cadre of administrators for the railway industry rather than a cadre of managers.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2018, 11:24:46 am by 4064ReadingAbbey » Logged
TaplowGreen
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3816


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2018, 04:24:58 pm »

Failing Grayling is throwing Network Rail, which to all intents and purposes is state controlled, under a bus. He's blaming them for the Northern debacle too. Nice boss to have.  Roll Eyes

What's his agenda with Network Rail? His department have to share  blame. Its the DfT who specified these basket case franchises.

As the American Philosopher Noam Chomsky Said

Quote
Like when Thatcher wanted to defund the railroads, first thing to do is defund them, then they don't work and people get angry and they want a change. You say okay, privatize them and then they get worse. In that case the government had to step in and rescue it.

And

Quote
Thatís the standard technique of privatization: defund, make sure things donít work, people get angry, you hand it over to private capital.

As far as Economics goes, Chomsky is a great Professor of anti capitalist Philosophy  Roll Eyes
Logged
bradshaw
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 275


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2018, 05:37:24 pm »


This is an excellent explanation of the Thameslink situation

https://www.londonreconnections.com/2018/the-cicadas-take-flight-explaining-the-may-timetable-changes/
Logged
Surrey 455
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 599


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2018, 12:33:49 am »

One oddity I have noticed is that some Southern services are being described in the journey planners and on the station departure boards as being Thameslink services. I have noticed this for Southern trains running through Epsom. It may possibly be occurring elsewhere.
Logged
SandTEngineer
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2164


In a Linemans Hut in the far Southwest


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2018, 10:14:29 am »

Perhaps the moderators could move that post to the THAMESLINK thread I started, as its nothing to do with chocolate.... Roll Eyes
Logged

Out of this nettle, Danger, we pluck this flower, Safety.
[Henry IV, Part 1, Act 2, Scene 3]
Timmer
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4647


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2018, 12:37:13 pm »

BBC South Today's Transport correspondent Paul Clifton reporting that the chief executive of Govia Thameslink Railway, Charles Horton, has resigned.
Logged
Red Squirrel
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2043


The first town plan. An idea that had legs.


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2018, 12:48:19 pm »

They should renationalise the railways straight away. That's the only way to stop this game of political football. Now then which is the emoji for 'yes I am being ironic?'
Logged

If I had to show a foreigner one English city, and one only, to give him a balanced idea of English architecture, I should take him... to Bristol, which has developed in all directions and where nearly everything has happened. - Sir John Summerson
Timmer
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4647


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2018, 12:52:10 pm »

He's not the only one who should be considering their position.
Logged
Thatcham Crossing
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 494


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2018, 01:58:54 pm »

As a mere passenger, but one familiar with some of the Thameslink core route, I've thought (ever since I found out about it) that squeezing 24tph through the likes of Farringdon was going to be a challenge. And even more so, as those trains are converging through that potential bottleneck from several different routes (if I have understood correctly)?
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1] 2 3
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants