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Author Topic: Night Riviera double headed, 22nd June 2018  (Read 8838 times)
JayMac
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« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2018, 19:40:13 »

If there is a need for a pre 9am arrival in Plymouth with the present service provision, and you want a longer night's kip on the Sleeper, you can of course book through to Truro. Then head back up to Plymouth on a day train.

Not ideal, but the extra kip might be worth the additional cost if another ticket is needed. Those with return tickets to London wouldn't need another ticket. They'd just be breaking their return at Plymouth.
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« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2018, 21:16:30 »

No simple answers - has anyone tried to get an idea of what demand there would be for more sociable sleeper provision to Plymouth?

And the corollary - what days of the week would that demand exist and would Plymouth peak days be the same as Cornwall peak days?

If you were to split the train at Plymouth, you would need something to shunt the carriages and a servicing crew at (?) Laira, of to run the sleeper carriage split off on to Long Rock. It ain't simple
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2018, 21:56:38 »

No simple answers - has anyone tried to get an idea of what demand there would be for more sociable sleeper provision to Plymouth?

And the corollary - what days of the week would that demand exist and would Plymouth peak days be the same as Cornwall peak days?

If you were to split the train at Plymouth, you would need something to shunt the carriages and a servicing crew at (?) Laira, of to run the sleeper carriage split off on to Long Rock. It ain't simple

Noone is saying it's simple Graham as I acknowledged earlier, but it's been done before so it's far from unachievable.

You'll find the best organisations look for imaginative ways to improve, develop,  grow & better serve their customer base rather than just folding the arms, saying "too difficult" and accepting the status quo.

I get however that GWR (Great Western Railway)'s service is in such an appalling state at the moment that something as radical as innovation in the customers interest may have to take second place to operating something approaching the advertised timetable, particularly at weekends.
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« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2018, 22:16:32 »

Cost is a factor too, as much as I'm reluctant to say, "Ooo's gunna pay for it?" the Night Riviera is, I believe, already subsidised. That is one reason why it has survived.

If Plymouth business leaders and their Chamber of Commerce feel the city is losing out because of poor rail service provision then they can use their clout to lobby for changes to the Night Riviera.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2018, 22:23:00 by bignosemac » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2018, 22:21:11 »

Lobbying might be a good option, given Chris Grayling’s stated promises about the south west being his greatest rail priority (or whatever the words used were).  It would be easy for him to specify something like that for the next direct award as part of a wider ‘impressive’ long list of improvements that would be reasonably cheap and get him out of committing to any serious cash.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2018, 22:31:54 »

Cost is a factor too, as much as I'm reluctant to say, "Ooo's gunna pay for it?" the Night Riviera is, I believe, already subsidised. That is one reason why it has survived.

If Plymouth business leaders and their Chamber of Commerce feel the city is losing out because of poor rail service provision then they can use their clout to lobby for changes to the Night Riviera.

Hence my earlier mention of Tudor Evans  (Leader of Plymouth City Council but more given to vanity projects than anything practical)

Greater use of a more customer oriented service in tune with the needs of the area would, of course, increase revenue, offsetting costs........in the meantime however, people will either drive and/or take their business elsewhere. If you want investment, you need to make it as easy and attractive as possible to do Business.

If the railways don't see themselves playing a part in this or even see the need to try, then they, and their advocates, shouldn't complain when roads are built instead of rails.
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« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2018, 11:07:15 »

Cost is a factor too, as much as I'm reluctant to say, "Ooo's gunna pay for it?" the Night Riviera is, I believe, already subsidised. That is one reason why it has survived.

If Plymouth business leaders and their Chamber of Commerce feel the city is losing out because of poor rail service provision then they can use their clout to lobby for changes to the Night Riviera.

Hence my earlier mention of Tudor Evans  (Leader of Plymouth City Council but more given to vanity projects than anything practical)

Greater use of a more customer oriented service in tune with the needs of the area would, of course, increase revenue, offsetting costs........in the meantime however, people will either drive and/or take their business elsewhere. If you want investment, you need to make it as easy and attractive as possible to do Business.

If the railways don't see themselves playing a part in this or even see the need to try, then they, and their advocates, shouldn't complain when roads are built instead of rails.
Speaking as a Plymothian, Plymouth city centre has indeed seen better days. Ongoing defence cuts since the end of the cold war have impacted particularly badly on Plymouths once buoyant economy   https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/devonport-been-robbed-pay-portsmouth-1708202 with Devonport Dockyard now a mere shadow of its former self. The city has also lost many large manufacturing companies in last few decades but surprisingly still retains the largest manufacturing cluster in Southern England providing about 13k jobs. The city's University has to some extent helped to alleviate the economic void created in the city centre but the retail tsunami now sweeping the country is having a particularly devastating impact on Plymouth once the prime regional retail centre despite the economic boost provided by the nearby University of Plymouths 19k students. Bare in mind that at the time of the 1982 Falklands war Plymouth had four flights a day to London Heathrow! However the closure of the city's airport and the loss of air links to London City/Gatwick airports in 2011 has left a void which the railways west of Exeter simply cant fill (poor infrastructure hence poor rail journey times), while the much smaller Exeter, 45 road and 52 rail miles closer to everywhere of economic importance has been consistently fairing much better with its successful airport, fast rail and motorway links. For political reasons the government now seems far more concerned about Cornwall's economic needs than Plymouths https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/heathrows-third-runway-game-changer-1708636  and the city now finds itself essentially the forgotten transport "piggy in middle" in the Devon and Cornwall's transport strategy (if there is one). No amount of money spent on resilience at Cowley Bridge or Dawlish/Teignmouth or elsewhere is going to change that fundamental problem either. The sleeper solution is "old hat" now in the 21st century for a city that is just 225 rail miles from London, not in the Scottish highlands. Not surprisingly then the wider business worlds perception and attitude to Plymouth is that it is much further away from London than it actually is and lets be honest not even the new Hitachi class 802 bi-mode trains are going to change that perception are they!
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Witham Bobby
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« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2018, 12:02:46 »

Detaching vehicles isn't an easily achieved option these days, though.  You'd need to provide staff and a pilot loco for what would only be a few minutes of actual operational work.  And the detached vehicle or portion would need to be part of a rake of vehicles with a brakevan, unless the pilot loco was to remain attached.

We took things like this for granted when I worked for the railways - but the wherewithal to do it just isnt provided any longer.
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« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2018, 12:23:52 »

Detaching vehicles isn't an easily achieved option these days, though.  You'd need to provide staff and a pilot loco for what would only be a few minutes of actual operational work.  And the detached vehicle or portion would need to be part of a rake of vehicles with a brakevan, unless the pilot loco was to remain attached.

We took things like this for granted when I worked for the railways - but the wherewithal to do it just isnt provided any longer.

Ah, but how about a bit of new thinking? Take a carriage, and a motor and a source of power (batteries preferred, but for a few metres it doesn't matter much). So it's a single car SU (sleeper (non-multiple) unit), able to guide itself to a rest with a bit of suitable software. Pending ERTMS (European Rail Traffic Management System.), it can be given something local to its dropping points and based on GPS plus other systems.

What could go wrong?


PS: that reads as if it's about slip-coaches, but it applies to ones that just shunt themselves out of the way too.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 12:31:22 by stuving » Logged
grahame
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« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2018, 12:55:35 »

Ah, but how about a bit of new thinking? Take a carriage, and a motor and a source of power ...

When I was reading this thread last night, I looked for the picture of a 153 at Blaneau Festiniog in NightStar livery (it was on a fictitious liveries site as I recall).   As 153s become less required - lines getting 2 and 3 carriage trains across the UK (United Kingdom) - we have already heard of some innovative new uses for them.  Not only for Plymouth passengers, but onward passengers to Gunnislake, Looe and Newquay might have a sleeper carriage  Cheesy Cheesy
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