Train Graphic
Great Western Passengers' Forum Great Western Coffee Shop - [home] and [about]
Read about the forum [here].
Register and contribute [here] - it's free.
Threaten wisely - - [here]
 27/04/2019 - TransWilts AGM
27/04/2019 - Melksham to Swanage trip
28/04/2019 - Melksham to Seaton trip
30/04/2019 - SERUG talk - Sidmouth
02/05/2019 - WWRUG - Trowbridge
15/05/2019 - Community Rail in the City
Random Image
Train Running @GWR Twitter Acronyms/Abbreviations Station Comparator Rail news GWR co. site Site Style 1 2 3 4 Chat on off
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
April 25, 2019, 08:55:38 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most liked recent subjects
[96] BTF Films
[93] Peers call for end of free bus passes for over 65s
[56] Williams Rail Review
[56] May 1969 timetable
[32] World First Solar Train Arrives in Byron Bay [Australia]
[25] Bristol Temple Meads Station redevelopment
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4
  Print  
Author Topic: IET Train First Class Carriages  (Read 4620 times)
1st fan
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 245


View Profile
« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2018, 02:41:53 pm »

The IEP specification didn't call up any standards, in fact it didn't say whether the train should provide mains or USB outlets. I assume we are only talking about mains and you own charger here; some posts certainly are, but are USB sockets even provided? 

USB itself was designed for data and control, and repurposed for recharging phones etc., both as an interface on the phone and a charger itself and its outlet. That has now been standardised, though using the principle that if one standard is good then a lot of them must be better. But I'm sure in reality they are pretty similar - EN IEC 62684:2018 seems to be current. But (without its full text) I  think it only covers volts and amps, not interference which is probably regarded as unimportant for charging. Working while plugged in is another issue altogether.

I suspect, like broadgage, it's about earthing. If the mains supply (live and neutral together) has a significant voltage at the train's inverter frequencies, which I understand are around 1 kHz, or their harmonics, that could well interfere with a touch screen. I don't know which principles they use these days; some types do use such voltages in the touch sensing itself, but even those that don't may have them just inside and not provide much screening.

In addressing the issue, the first problem is that you are GWR's customer, but GWR and DfT together are Hitachi's customer, so you have no direct contract with the design authority. Then, do they offer the service you are using, or only a charging facility? If there is no standard, or it's not a formal requirement, then what does someone (we don't know who) test the sockets against?

There ought to be solutions that can filter out the suggested kind of common-mode interference, but they all require filters that are properly earthed. A charger could use the mains earth for this, but I don't think they ever do. You can get filters to put in the USB lead, but they aren't yet (AFAICS) standard consumer items, and in any case are unlikely to address common mode interference or such low frequencies. But has anyone else come across workable solutions, using filters or otherwise?


I've certainly tried the USB socket on the IET but whether that was with a touchscreen enabled device I couldn't tell you. Depending on the type of train tomorrow night I'll be able to test it on both the inbuilt USB and the power socket. I'll also take along a few more different USB chargers as well as a USB power display device (https://www.amazon.com/AboveTEK%C2%AE-USB-Power-Meter-Current/dp/B00JIFMXSK/) to give it a full test. The sockets are in a daft place because you have to unplug everything if the person in the window seat has to get out of their seat.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2018, 03:16:26 pm by 1st fan » Logged
Clan Line
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 228



View Profile
« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2018, 03:20:03 pm »

I, and my wife, have both experienced difficulties using our smart 'phones on HSTs (in First Class) in the past. They seemed to respond very poorly/randomly to touch screen inputs. It made no difference whether the 'phone was plugged in or just running on its own battery. It may, possibly, have been related to our location within the coach.
I put it down to some interference produced by train fitted equipment - usually "cheapo" inverter type electronics is a common cause of unwanted interference.
Logged
1st fan
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 245


View Profile
« Reply #32 on: November 08, 2018, 10:24:21 pm »

I, and my wife, have both experienced difficulties using our smart 'phones on HSTs (in First Class) in the past. They seemed to respond very poorly/randomly to touch screen inputs. It made no difference whether the 'phone was plugged in or just running on its own battery. It may, possibly, have been related to our location within the coach.
I put it down to some interference produced by train fitted equipment - usually "cheapo" inverter type electronics is a common cause of unwanted interference.

That's very odd (the unplugged bit) and it would be interesting to see if you get the same interference on the IET with the same items.
Logged
Clan Line
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 228



View Profile
« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2018, 08:24:44 am »

I, and my wife, have both experienced difficulties using our smart 'phones on HSTs (in First Class) in the past. They seemed to respond very poorly/randomly to touch screen inputs. It made no difference whether the 'phone was plugged in or just running on its own battery. It may, possibly, have been related to our location within the coach.
I put it down to some interference produced by train fitted equipment - usually "cheapo" inverter type electronics is a common cause of unwanted interference.

That's very odd (the unplugged bit) and it would be interesting to see if you get the same interference on the IET with the same items.

I have my first IET First Class "experience" booked later in the month. Will set a reminder in my 'phone to tell me to check - if my 'phone will work to remind me, that is !
Logged
1st fan
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 245


View Profile
« Reply #34 on: November 09, 2018, 07:29:32 pm »

Sadly for the purposes of the test* I'm on an HST tonight and everything is working perfectly whilst connected to the onboard power supply. Will have to try with my plethora of gadgets and different chargers on the return journey. *Although I'm personally much happier on the HST.
Logged
1st fan
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 245


View Profile
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2018, 06:01:34 pm »

So I'm sitting in a 9 car IEP and I have tested the power using a variety of different chargers and cables. I'll upload a picture of the chargers and indicate which ones worked and which didn't. The Amazon tablet is the main sufferer of gobbledygook. The Samsung phone was unaffected as far as I can tell. The iPhone would occasionally type a letter from the other side of the keyboard but it was really random and not conclusive evidence. The cable for the iPhone is also shielded which might make a difference.
Logged
Clan Line
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 228



View Profile
« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2018, 08:27:49 pm »

I have my first IET First Class "experience" booked later in the month. Will set a reminder in my 'phone to tell me to check - if my 'phone will work to remind me, that is !

Regret to say that my first IET First Class "experience" was such that minor points such as my 'phone working were not top of my list of priorities !

My wife and I were booked out of Paddington to Bath on a later evening service. We elected to pay a LOT more to travel First Class in case the train was busy.
The train arrived 53 minutes before its scheduled departure time. It was 10 coaches (first fear crossed off list). We walked from the First Class Lounge to the train via the footbridge - ticket barriers were locked open, but in use at the Lawn end. We boarded the train some 25 mins before departure - not much sign of the train being "prepared". The platform number seemed to appear at the very last minute (as usual) judging by the mass stampede down the platform.

We were sitting in the lead coach of the rear 5. There was a continuous stream of people trying to get through to the next coach - many seemed to take it as a personal insult when I told them they would have to get onto the platform and walk round to the next coach. Many seemed to think this was a Standard Class coach due the decor (don't blame them !!) (Perhaps Mr Hopwood could negotiate a price for some First Class stickers for the windows ?)  At this point the train manager came on the PA and apologised for the fact that this 10 car train was in fact two 5 car trains joined together and it was not possible to walk from one to the other. He then announced that due to "staff shortages" there would be no catering in the rear half of the train - luckily we had stocked up in Simply Food.
The train departed - with people still on the platform and others trying to get though our coach.
The train manager then announced that the rear five coaches were packed but that there were seats available in the front five and that those standing in the rear could occupy First Class seats. He then suggested that, at Reading, these people could walk down the platform to find any empty Standard Class seats in the front 5 cars - did he really expect these people to move from their First Class seats ??  - of course not - they stayed put ! At Reading, Didcot and Swindon we had yet more people joining the rear of the train and trying to walk through to the front 5 cars. Not only could they not do this of course - but First Class was still packed .....

The whole of this shambolic episode was caused by the idiocy of using two 5 car trains as a 10 car unit. Long before I retired I sampled the delights of 5 car travel when the Class 180s were introduced on this same route. Exactly the same problems with exactly the same results - does no one learn anything ??
There will be regulars who will learn from this but there will be many travelers who won't know that a "10 car train" just 'aint that !! of course there is the added complication of 4 different positionings of First and Standard Classes - at least the 180s had it in the middle ! I felt so sorry for the train manager who was struggling with an awful situation which was totally beyond his control and imposed on him by little more than a bunch of idiots!! He seemed almost relieved when a Swindon boarding passenger (off a train from Stroud) informed him that (a) he had got on the wrong train. (b) he had left his bag on the other train - something that he could actually do something about................

I'll finish my moan off now - I thought IET First Class was abysmal (I'm not talking about the shambles above either), it should be renamed Third Class. We left the IET at Bath and traveled in a well worn SWR 159 to Westbury - First Class in that (as usual) was heavenly with proper, big, padded comfy armchairs - just like a 125 !!!

One final, VERY serious, thought - 5 car IETs on Cardiff to Portsmouth HuhHuh A sensible use for these things !
Logged
didcotdean
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1057


View Profile
« Reply #37 on: November 27, 2018, 08:39:13 pm »

Don't forget to claim your refund due under NRCOT conditions 15.7 and 31 for First Class being declassified.
Logged
1st fan
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 245


View Profile
« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2018, 09:26:53 pm »

Yeah staff on my HST trips haven't wanted to comment on what they thought of 1st on the IET. I pointed out that I thought it was a real downgrade and the DfT had ballsed it up. Catering also seriously seems to be a bit hit and miss with a lack of a customer host being a depressingly often occurrence. At least with a buffet you could collect complimentary nibbles from there if no customer host was present. I'm informed by staff that trolley(s) in standard do not have 1st items on there and you can't have any of the regular items. That's something GWR need to look at if they want to keep people paying for 1st.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 09:42:30 pm by 1st fan » Logged
Clan Line
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 228



View Profile
« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2018, 09:45:46 pm »

Don't forget to claim your refund due under NRCOT conditions 15.7 and 31 for First Class being declassified.

Many thanks for that - I did think about claiming, then thought it probably wouldn't be worth the effort. Just had a look on the GWR website - due to the terms in 31.1 and the high cost of walk up tickets we might get a refund of 2.95 each. I fear the new Aston Martin will have to wait a bit longer.. Cry

Perhaps if I press the "no catering" bit I might get another 50p.......
Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2411



View Profile
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2018, 09:58:53 pm »

Whilst I am of course sorry to hear of your negative experience, I cant say that I am surprised.

I specifically  stated that downgrading formerly inter-city services to DMU operation would lead to exactly the problems experienced.
A pair of short DMUs without through gangways are not a proper intercity train. For the reasons that you experienced of crowding in one unit, and consequent declassification of first class.

I also specifically forecast that the first customer host and/or the trolley would be in the other unit.

The voyager project is now admitted to have been a failure, too short from day one, still too short years later. The wretched Adelantes were also a failure, less conspicuous only because there where not that many of them.
So have lessons been learned ? Not likely, lets order a load more short DMUs for so-called inter city services.
Logged

"When customers say that they want a seat, they dont mean they want to sit with their knees behind their ears so that 4 more can sit down. They mean that they want an extra coach so that 74 more can sit down"
"Capacity on intercity routes should be about number of vehicles, not compressing people"
Clan Line
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 228



View Profile
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2018, 11:17:02 pm »

Whilst I am of course sorry to hear of your negative experience, I cant say that I am surprised.

I specifically  stated that downgrading formerly inter-city services to DMU operation would lead to exactly the problems experienced.
A pair of short DMUs without through gangways are not a proper intercity train. For the reasons that you experienced of crowding in one unit, and consequent declassification of first class.

I also specifically forecast that the first customer host and/or the trolley would be in the other unit.

The voyager project is now admitted to have been a failure, too short from day one, still too short years later. The wretched Adelantes were also a failure, less conspicuous only because there where not that many of them.
So have lessons been learned ? Not likely, lets order a load more short DMUs for so-called inter city services.

Perhaps you should consider changing your coffeeshop nom de plume to "Nostradamus"  Wink Wink        2:30 at Sandown tomorrow please.... Cheesy
Logged
Lee
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6515

He who laughs last hasn't got all the facts.


View Profile WWW
« Reply #42 on: November 28, 2018, 12:33:11 am »

No Sandown, but in the 2.30 Punchestown, I reckon Poli Roi. Just like an IET, he has enough speed for the trip, and a ride that will be hard to beat.
Logged

Currently muddling along the Guingamp-Carhaix line

http://twitter.com/research_gwchat
IndustryInsider
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7135


View Profile
« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2018, 12:50:31 am »

The wretched Adelantes were also a failure, less conspicuous only because there where not that many of them.

Best internal layout of any train in recent times, with acres of legroom, comfy seats, loads of tables, ample first class and even a buffet and they still get described as wretched and a failure?

Ok, well they certainly failed a lot! Wink
Logged

To view my cab run over the new Reading Viaduct as well as a relief line cab ride at Reading just after Platforms 12-15 opened and my 'before and after' video comparison of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/1
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2411



View Profile
« Reply #44 on: November 28, 2018, 08:55:53 am »

The Adelantes were a failure from the capacity point of view, too short.
Also unreliable, especially in warm weather.

The internal layout was better than an IET, but that is not saying much.
Logged

"When customers say that they want a seat, they dont mean they want to sit with their knees behind their ears so that 4 more can sit down. They mean that they want an extra coach so that 74 more can sit down"
"Capacity on intercity routes should be about number of vehicles, not compressing people"
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants