Train Graphic
Great Western Passengers' Forum Great Western Coffee Shop - [home] and [about]
Read about the forum [here].
Register and contribute [here] - it's free.
article index - [here]
 07/09/2019 - Railfuture Severnside
08/09/2019 - CCIF initial bids deadline
14/09/2019 - Okehampton to Weymouth
21/09/2019 - RailFuture National, Bristol
25/09/2019 - WWRUG / Transport Focus
03/10/2019 - ACoRP Community Rail Awards
Random Image
Train Running @GWR Twitter Acronyms/Abbreviations Station Comparator Rail news GWR co. site Site Style 1 2 3 4 Chat on off
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
August 21, 2019, 01:10:49 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most liked recent subjects
[353] Server issues
[97] Litter on a train
[52] Bristol Temple Meads Station redevelopment
[49] SBB and ÖBB to expand Nightjet services
[38] Suggestion: IET internal modifications to make them more bugg...
[17] Great Western Railway: on-board catering, buffets, Travelling ...
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 [3]
  Print  
Author Topic: Defensive scheduling  (Read 4946 times)
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 26246



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2018, 03:28:03 pm »

It is amazing how just one or journey's, good or bad can colour one's opinion.

Indeed.

While still in my memory, I have analysed the 15 trains I travelled on - ScotRail in Scotland.
1 was cancelled
1 arrived at my destination 25 minutes late
1 arrived at my destination 20 minutes late (*)
3 arrived at my destination about 10 minutes late
2 arrived at my destination just over 5 minutes late
7 arrived at my destination on time
Journey noted (*) arrived late too late for me to make my onward connection.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest and of RailFuture
SandTEngineer
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2981


Climbing a Pole Somewhere in the far Southwest


View Profile
« Reply #31 on: September 03, 2018, 10:49:04 pm »

Well, I've just spent three days travelling up and down the Northern end of the West Coast Mainline and out of 10 journeys the total number on-time has been....well.....zero.... Tongue

On a couple of occaisions I caught an earlier service than the one I needed to, to make sure I made a branch/secondary line connection.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2018, 10:54:06 pm by SandTEngineer » Logged

Out of this nettle, Danger, we pluck this flower, Safety.
[Henry IV, Part 1, Act 2, Scene 3]
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 26246



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2018, 04:00:16 pm »

When defensive schduleing fails

Important meeting at 16:00 ... Reading

Plan - Take the 12:36 ex Melksham, change Swindon, arrive around 13:45 but
* Cancelled

Next train 14:40 (fallback option - 15:45 Reading) but
* 8 late, connection failed at Swindon

Every 15 minutes Swindon to Reading
* "Not today sir - (at 15:16) next train is 15:42. Normally there's one between"

Now 16:00 ... location, somewhere before Didcot.

Fortunately it's a rail meeting so I'm sure my hosts will be understanding
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest and of RailFuture
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 26246



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2018, 04:25:05 am »

From Huffington Post - a failure of defensive scheduling?

Quote
The much-beleaguered Transport Secretary has been ridiculed for failing to arrive for his own conference speech on time.

Chris Grayling, who previously refused to take responsibility for severe summer rail delays caused by timetable chaos, was seven minutes late for his speech in Birmingham on Monday at the Conservative Party Conference, which had been due to start at 10.54am.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest and of RailFuture
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 26246



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #34 on: April 20, 2019, 08:53:07 am »

Classic example of when you should "defensive schedule"

From the Kidderminster Shuttle

Quote
A CITY woman who missed two planes due to train problems says her week has been a “nightmare” and she is "mentally exhausted".

Linda Mulas said the problems began on Tuesday when she was at Worcester Shrub Hill Station and was set to catch the 5.11am, so she could get her plane from Gatwick.

“I was sat on the train, and it was not moving," she said.

Quote
Mrs Mulas said she was determined to make the trip for Easter, so rebooked a flight for Thursday lunchtime, and thought she would try again getting a train from the station with a back up plan for a friend to drive her.

“The plane was taking off at 2pm, so I thought I’d get to the station really early and get the 7.35am," she said.

“This time the train left on time and I was really happy. But then we suddenly stopped on the line at Honeybourne. We were told there was a breakdown of a train and we were held up. The train didn’t move for three hours. I was going to change at Reading. But I got off at Oxford, spoke to a station manager, who said there was no way I would make it. Staff were great - they got me a first class ticket home. But that was going in the wrong direction.


Edit to add ...

My bolding.

Actually NOT all that early.  07:35 gets to Reading at 09:20.   Dubious connection to 09:32 to Gatwick - really should connect to 10:32 which gets to Gatwick at 11:51, which is really not brilliant for a 14:00 takeoff.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 08:59:28 am by grahame » Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest and of RailFuture
TaplowGreen
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4624


View Profile
« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2019, 09:33:35 am »

Classic example of when you should "defensive schedule"

From the Kidderminster Shuttle

Quote
A CITY woman who missed two planes due to train problems says her week has been a “nightmare” and she is "mentally exhausted".

Linda Mulas said the problems began on Tuesday when she was at Worcester Shrub Hill Station and was set to catch the 5.11am, so she could get her plane from Gatwick.

“I was sat on the train, and it was not moving," she said.

Quote
Mrs Mulas said she was determined to make the trip for Easter, so rebooked a flight for Thursday lunchtime, and thought she would try again getting a train from the station with a back up plan for a friend to drive her.

“The plane was taking off at 2pm, so I thought I’d get to the station really early and get the 7.35am," she said.

“This time the train left on time and I was really happy. But then we suddenly stopped on the line at Honeybourne. We were told there was a breakdown of a train and we were held up. The train didn’t move for three hours. I was going to change at Reading. But I got off at Oxford, spoke to a station manager, who said there was no way I would make it. Staff were great - they got me a first class ticket home. But that was going in the wrong direction.


Edit to add ...

My bolding.

Actually NOT all that early.  07:35 gets to Reading at 09:20.   Dubious connection to 09:32 to Gatwick - really should connect to 10:32 which gets to Gatwick at 11:51, which is really not brilliant for a 14:00 takeoff.

Omitted re: her experience on Tuesday - "Eventually they said there was no driver, and it was cancelled. I realised I wouldn’t make it in time. I was so frustrated I just went home and unpacked. The station guard didn’t explain to me that they would have got me a taxi at their expense, which would have got me there.”

Gatwick advises arriving at least 2 hours before take-off, so even if she hadn't made the 09:32 and had to catch the 10:32, arriving at 11:51 for a 14:00 take-off seems pretty reasonable?

 
Logged
Celestial
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 216


View Profile
« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2019, 09:41:43 am »

Having looked up the flight to Sardinia it leaves at 1155 on Tuesdays (her first attempt) and the 0511 she tried to catch gives an arrival time at Gatwick at around 0850.  That seems reasonable, as with an hour's delay there would still be plenty of time. What I don't understand is that the next train would have got her to Gatwick before 10am.

So did she give up too early?
Logged
TaplowGreen
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4624


View Profile
« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2019, 10:04:46 am »

Having looked up the flight to Sardinia it leaves at 1155 on Tuesdays (her first attempt) and the 0511 she tried to catch gives an arrival time at Gatwick at around 0850.  That seems reasonable, as with an hour's delay there would still be plenty of time. What I don't understand is that the next train would have got her to Gatwick before 10am.

So did she give up too early?

As she suggested,she should have been proactively offered a taxi when the GWR failed to provide the 0511 which she was (defensively) scheduled to catch. Customer service failure compounded the operational failure.

Bear in mind as well that she is a 69 year old lady so one would hope additional consideration would have been shown to her.

I suspect that there will be torrent of comments questioning her integrity, motivation, intelligence etc etc in usual manner...….
Logged
Celestial
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 216


View Profile
« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2019, 10:24:25 am »

Bear in mind as well that she is a 69 year old lady so one would hope additional consideration would have been shown to her.
69 is only three years above the retirement age, so I'm not sure why people think that everyone of that age is unable to fend for themselves, physically or mentally.  And I'm not sure why being a woman is relevant either to the discussion.  All she had to do was ask whether the next train would get her there in time.
Logged
TaplowGreen
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4624


View Profile
« Reply #39 on: April 20, 2019, 10:43:06 am »

Bear in mind as well that she is a 69 year old lady so one would hope additional consideration would have been shown to her.
69 is only three years above the retirement age, so I'm not sure why people think that everyone of that age is unable to fend for themselves, physically or mentally.  And I'm not sure why being a woman is relevant either to the discussion.  All she had to do was ask whether the next train would get her there in time.

I'm not making any assumptions about her physical or mental capabilities, I just think it's  courtesy to help your elders, especially when they're female, alone and at an ungodly time of the morning ? (Although I get that's a concept that's fast diminishing, and we all set our own standards).
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 26246



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #40 on: April 23, 2019, 07:54:17 am »

As a balancing reminder - reading comment on the Worcester story press saying "she should have driven"

Quote
@HighwaysSWEST

Highways England Retweeted Highways England

There are 30 minute delays on the approach to this #M4 incident above usual journey times spanning approx 3.8 miles back towards J19 #Bristol. Average speeds of 9mph detected on the approach btwn J19 - J18, pls plan ahead this morning.

We may grumble about railway delays and schedule our important trips defensively.  We should do exactly the same thing if we're travelling by road too!
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest and of RailFuture
plymothian
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 612


View Profile
« Reply #41 on: April 23, 2019, 10:43:16 pm »

As a balancing reminder - reading comment on the Worcester story press saying "she should have driven"

Quote
@HighwaysSWEST

Highways England Retweeted Highways England

There are 30 minute delays on the approach to this #M4 incident above usual journey times spanning approx 3.8 miles back towards J19 #Bristol. Average speeds of 9mph detected on the approach btwn J19 - J18, pls plan ahead this morning.

We may grumble about railway delays and schedule our important trips defensively.  We should do exactly the same thing if we're travelling by road too!

Yes we should, and most people do add on extra journey time to their planned itinerary from Google or GPS but that is because they are running to a personal timetable, not someone elses.
The main difference is that when getting delayed on the road, most people accept it (though some pay grumble on social media or to local newspapers) and of course cannot claim compensation.
Logged

Please be aware that only the first 4 words of this post will be platformed on this message board.
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 2 [3]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page