Train Graphic
Great Western Passengers' Forum Great Western Coffee Shop - [home] and [about]
Read about the forum [here].
Register and contribute [here] - it's free.
 today - PEW, Wolmar, to edge of world
15/11/2018 - WWRUG - Westbury
16/11/2018 - TWSW AGM
17/11/2018 - GWRA Auction, Pershore
21/11/2018 - First Bath Bus panel
21/11/2018 - Consultation end - Angel Road
Random Image
Train Running @GWR Twitter Acronyms/Abbreviations Station Comparator Rail News GWR co. site Site Style 1 2 3 4 Chat on off
November 13, 2018, 05:18:17 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most liked recent subjects
[101] Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
[91] Eurostar to Europe,
[53] MetroBus
[51] IETs into passenger service from 16 Oct 2017 and subsequent pe...
[46] West Somerset Railway - heritage line, Bishops Lydeard to Mine...
[41] Bumper picture quiz - November 2018.
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
Author Topic: Gove floats scrapping HS2  (Read 1267 times)
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 22439



View Profile WWW Email
« on: July 04, 2018, 08:16:19 am »

From Conservative Home

Quote
Gove floats scrapping HS2 because he believes it to be a policy with a growing appeal

Amid all the whispering and jostling for position ahead of the expected leadership election – whenever it might come – it’s fascinating to see which particular topics are apparently being raised, and by which candidates. Brexit, of course, is the backdrop to just about everything at the moment, but one detail caught my eye in the weekend’s newspapers.

The eminently well-informed Tim Shipman recounted a visitation bestowed by Michael Gove upon a group of MPs recently. As they dined, ‘The environment secretary sat down and began asking them leading questions about the future of the party. “He was blatantly fishing,” one said. “He asked, ‘How would you feel if we just dropped HS2 and spent the money on local transport links in the Midlands and the north?’’
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Member of Melksham Rail User Group, on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest and some more things besides
TaplowGreen
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4045


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2018, 08:24:07 am »

From Conservative Home

Quote
Gove floats scrapping HS2 because he believes it to be a policy with a growing appeal

Amid all the whispering and jostling for position ahead of the expected leadership election – whenever it might come – it’s fascinating to see which particular topics are apparently being raised, and by which candidates. Brexit, of course, is the backdrop to just about everything at the moment, but one detail caught my eye in the weekend’s newspapers.

The eminently well-informed Tim Shipman recounted a visitation bestowed by Michael Gove upon a group of MPs recently. As they dined, ‘The environment secretary sat down and began asking them leading questions about the future of the party. “He was blatantly fishing,” one said. “He asked, ‘How would you feel if we just dropped HS2 and spent the money on local transport links in the Midlands and the north?’’

Good idea.
Logged
Kernow Otter
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 198



View Profile
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2018, 08:28:45 am »

Hmmm. 'Local transport links in the Midlands and the North'.  When will any politician realise that there are equally large pockets of under investment in the South West.  Angry
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 22439



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2018, 08:36:37 am »

Hmmm. 'Local transport links in the Midlands and the North'.  When will any politician realise that there are equally large pockets of under investment in the South West.  Angry


What is the proportion of marginal constituencies in each of the areas though?  Much of the South West remains as Tory heartland, and it has been suggested that the only question asked by the faithful down here when asked to jump to support a party policy is "how high".  Looking to capture more influence and votes to return to an overall Tory majority ... the Midlands and the North are likely to be the most productive areas, as the South West is already in the bag apart from isolated pockets.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Member of Melksham Rail User Group, on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest and some more things besides
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 9725


View Profile Email
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2018, 08:38:37 am »

And the WCML is full, while the GWML is not.
Logged
Red Squirrel
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2262


The first town plan. An idea that had legs.


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2018, 08:55:02 am »

The GWML, as the name implies, is not a local transport link. Meanwhile Bristol has a public transport infrastructure that would make a banana republic blush; and vast swathes of Somerset, Devon and Cornwall are still in a post-Beeching state of shock fifty-five years on. Yes there is some investment in this area, and it is welcome, but even that has been cut back; and at Portishead the simplest reopening with a watertight business case makes glacial progress.

Trouble is, given that it's Gove we're talking about, I suspect what he really has in mind is to scrap HS2 and not spent the money on anything at all..!
Logged

Sir. Does this mean that Ann-Margret's not coming?
ellendune
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 3022


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2018, 09:02:25 am »

The GWML, as the name implies, is not a local transport link. Meanwhile Bristol has a public transport infrastructure that would make a banana republic blush; and vast swathes of Somerset, Devon and Cornwall are still in a post-Beeching state of shock fifty-five years on. Yes there is some investment in this area, and it is welcome, but even that has been cut back; and at Portishead the simplest reopening with a watertight business case makes glacial progress.

Trouble is, given that it's Gove we're talking about, I suspect what he really has in mind is to scrap HS2 and not spent the money on anything at all..!

Swindon is marginal perhaps we should push for Swindon to Didcot 4 track now!
Logged
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 9725


View Profile Email
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2018, 09:14:03 am »

The point being is that a strategic link to the north is worth far more in GDP than any local transport links are in total, for the same expenditure
Logged
Red Squirrel
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2262


The first town plan. An idea that had legs.


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2018, 09:59:40 am »

The point being is that a strategic link to the north is worth far more in GDP than any local transport links are in total, for the same expenditure

The only way we'll know that for sure is to build it and find out; until then that's an opinion, not a fact.

Another opinion is that HS2 will only serve to accelerate the process of hoovering up all the talent from The North, and that by investing in local links in the regions you could actually grow them to the point where they can make their own decisions and spend their own money, without the need to go careening down to London with a begging bowl every time they need five bob to mend a pothole.
Logged

Sir. Does this mean that Ann-Margret's not coming?
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 22439



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2018, 10:05:15 am »

And the WCML is full, while the GWML is not.

So the lack of capacity to stop any services at Royal Wootton Bassett to the east of the junction that we've been told about, and the lack of paths from Swindon to Foxhall, are porkies we have been fed to help kick ideas into the long grass are they?   No capacity issues even when Crossrail is fully up and running between Paddington and Reading?
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Member of Melksham Rail User Group, on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest and some more things besides
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 9725


View Profile Email
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2018, 11:13:50 am »

We're talking long distance here. I don't think HS2 will be stopping locally?....
Logged
Red Squirrel
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2262


The first town plan. An idea that had legs.


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2018, 11:47:32 am »

Yes, we're talking about the merits of a non-stop line to the North versus local links, be they in the North or elsewhere. You say:

And the WCML is full, while the GWML is not.

...which seems to imply that you think adding capacity to the WCML is a higher priority than adding capacity to the GWML - but we are blurring distinctions here because HS2 is supposed to free capacity on the WCML for more local traffic. In the end, and perhaps inevitably, we're just heading towards the same old debate about whether HS2's billions could be better spent elsewhere...

Logged

Sir. Does this mean that Ann-Margret's not coming?
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 9725


View Profile Email
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2018, 12:05:25 pm »

Yes, I think that's where others are trying to take this, agreed.

And I haven't yet seen any argument that tops the GDP argument...which this amount of monetary spend must involve, if only to stand a chance of recouping the investment.

|A similar argument to Plymouth's demand for a sub-3 hour journey time - to attract London0-ites to do business in the SW really, for those in the north overall, not just a small town in one county as mentioned above. THat amount of money has to be spent strategically, not on (n)imby projects.
Logged
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1603


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2018, 12:06:57 pm »

I guess Gove's trying to appeal not only to marginals in the North and Midlands but to rural constituencies along the path who fear $house price cancer.
Logged

Day return to Infinity, please.
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 9725


View Profile Email
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2018, 12:16:22 pm »

Personally, I feel that Gove knows that his idea of Brexit is going top lose the country so many £billions that he's trying to recoup some of these £billions and actually, when it comes down to the local investment(s), it/they won't actually happen.....
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants