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Author Topic: Bus use by the over 60s  (Read 4400 times)
PhilWakely
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« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2018, 09:34:40 »

It is worth pointing out that bus pass holders are not barred from taking the bus before 9.30, they just have to pay a fare. This leads to ingenuity, and compassion on the part of drivers.  I have been told by one lady that she asked to buy a ticket on the bus from Tiverton to Exeter, because it was before 9.30am. The fare is around £8 return. The driver asked if she had a pass, which she confirmed. "Buy a single to Willand, then. We leave there at 9.31" he said.
(apologies, but slightly off topic) Nothing unusual and very good customer service. I have a couple of friends who regularly travel by train from Totnes to London on the 09:17 service. They have a Two Together Railcard, but because the railcard is not valid before 09:30, they buy day returns to Newton Abbot and then use their railcard on what is then the 09:34 NTA» (Newton Abbott - next trains)-PAD» (Paddington (London) - next trains)
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froome
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« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2018, 17:00:07 »

Surprising considering what else has gone in Oxfordshire, the locally issued passes still do give free travel in the county from 9:00.

Ditto for B&NES.
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TonyK
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« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2018, 22:35:30 »

Logic suggests that scrapping the senior card, allowing seniors to travel at child fares at all times, and giving seniors back the council money saved might be a good idea.  But sometimes logic is lacking in public transport, and if we were to give our seniors back the money which we've taken from them over the years, goodness only knows in what irresponsible way they might spend it  Smiley .

And here we hit the nail on the head. Pensioners are not poor these days, unless they chose to be. The very lowest income someone over pension age can expect is £163 per week for a singleton, plus their rent and council tax paid. Say a social rent of £110 pw, and you have a tax-free income of over £14000 pa. Then add on the freebies - free bus travel, worth say £20 per week in Bristol. the winter fuel allowance of an equivalent £6, free passports and TV licence for some, Free prescriptions and NHS treatment tend to be used more by the elderly, and when I worked for DWP (originally for DHSS, then Benefits Agency during the nice period, then DSS) I often found people who couldn't spend the income fast enough to avoid building up capital that affected their entitlement to means tested benefits. I hasten to say that for many, the payments were the only way of being able to buy care services to enable someone to remain out of residential care, but the approach is more blunderbuss than laser-guided sniper rifle, and I couldn't think of a better way.

I did consider the effect of adding together the sum total of the fringe benefits given to pensioners, dividing the annual cost by 52 and adding it to the weekly pension, with all the savings in administration that go with it, and figured it would still be electoral suicide. even the 25p per week supplement for the over 80s.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2018, 18:32:19 by Four Track, Now! » Logged

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Zoe
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« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2018, 17:21:41 »

I can understand why in most cases the pass is not valid before 9:30 AM on weekdays but does anyone know what the purpose of the 11 PM cutoff on weekdays is?  In areas which are lucky enough to have an evening service, the last bus is often at 11 PM so it seems rather strange that the pass should be valid at all times after the morning peak but not on the very last service of the day.  It have had it suggested that the restriction is there to stop pensioners from using the free travel so they can spend all evening in a pub but if this is the case then shouldn't the restriction apply 7 days a week?  It also results in the slightly ludicrous situation on Friday evening where you can't use any buses between 11 PM and midnight but if there is a bus after midnight then the pass becomes valid again since it is now Saturday.  I wonder if it was just that when the legislation was drafted, it was assumed that there weren't any buses after 11 PM (except in London where the Act requires all eligible residents to be granted the concession until 4:30 AM the next day).
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JayMac
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« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2018, 17:44:34 »

Maybe because older folk should be at home supping cocoa by 11pm.

Can't have hordes of seniors, tripping their t*** on Werthers Original and dealing knock off Sanatogen, roaming the streets at night.

  Tongue Wink Cheesy
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didcotdean
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« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2018, 18:29:10 »

It was originally described in the Budget which introduced it as being for 'off-peak' bus travel, but how after 11pm weekdays can be peak everywhere else apart from London is a bit of a mystery (not so that there are 'London' and 'not London' provisions in the wording as there already were differentiations in Transport Acts).

This doesn't seem to have been discussed at all in the passing of the Act. The times are hardwired into the Act rather than left to being set by Statutory Instrument.
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Zoe
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« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2018, 19:09:46 »

It was originally described in the Budget which introduced it as being for 'off-peak' bus travel, but how after 11pm weekdays can be peak everywhere else apart from London is a bit of a mystery (not so that there are 'London' and 'not London' provisions in the wording as there already were differentiations in Transport Acts).

This doesn't seem to have been discussed at all in the passing of the Act. The times are hardwired into the Act rather than left to being set by Statutory Instrument.
I've just had a look through the legislation and it seems that the 11 PM rule at least goes back to the Transport Act 2000 which provided half priced local travel for eligible residents outside London (I seem to always remember free passes in London). This was changed to free local travel by statutory instrument in 2005 and when the scheme became national in 2007 the hours were retained in the new Act so I guess the question is then why 11 PM was chosen in 2000 Act which would have had the effect at the time of making anyone eligible have to pay twice as much to travel after 11 PM.
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chuffed
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« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2018, 21:10:07 »

This over 60 disabled pensioner found that his  North Somerset issued Diamond Travelcardcard could not be read by machines operated by Compass bus 32 Redhill to Guildford, Safeguard buses 4 &5 to go up to the Cathedral, Thamesdown X40 Reading to Wallingford and X38 from Wallingford back to Reading via Henley, over the last couple of days. As soon as I travel out of the area, this always seems to happen.
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Fourbee
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« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2018, 10:27:14 »

All ENCTS (English National Concessionary Travel Scheme) passes (including Surrey issued ones) on the 4 & 5 get issued with a ticket - it's not turning it's nose up at your "foreign" one Cheesy

I did see and use what I consider to be the future of contactless card bus use on the 4/5 (if you have to pay). Mounted below the ticket machine is a contactless reader, which, if you have registered your payment card on the Multipass website works Oyster (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services)-style with the exception that you also have to touch-out when you get off (as generally outside of London point-to-point fares vary so the system needs to know).

The great thing about it is there's a 10% discount, daily capping and flexibility (e.g. if you don't know you need a return, but then travel back anyway, the system only charges you for a return - not another single).

You can view your journey history on the Multipass website as well.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2018, 14:18:35 »

Looking at the figures for children, they have lumped all kids from 5-16 together. In practice I'd expect a large difference within that age range, with secondary school pupils far more likely to take a bus (whether local or school) than primary, and also more likely to walk for shorter distances where primary schoolers are taken by car. Obviously there will be big differences between urban and rural schools too.
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grahame
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« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2018, 15:40:44 »

Looking at the figures for children, they have lumped all kids from 5-16 together. ...

There is a further breakdown available (5 to 10 and 11 to 16) at the original link.   See screen grab attachment on this post
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2018, 18:22:06 »

Thanks. Looks like I was right about the buses at least, but wronger than I expected on the walking – presumably due to primary schools usually being much nearer.
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