Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 08:55 18 Apr 2024
- Dubai airport chaos as Gulf hit by deadly storms
- Prehistoric sea reptile 'twice as long as bus' identified
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
18th Apr (2018)
SEWWEB leaflet launched and Aztec West (link)

Train RunningCancelled
09:06 London Paddington to Newbury
09:08 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway
13:39 Bristol Temple Meads to Worcester Foregate Street
16:12 Bristol Temple Meads to Avonmouth
18:43 Bristol Temple Meads to Westbury
19:13 Salisbury to Bristol Temple Meads
19:14 Bristol Temple Meads to Avonmouth
19:46 Avonmouth to Bristol Temple Meads
20:50 Bristol Temple Meads to Weymouth
22:24 Bristol Temple Meads to Severn Beach
23:08 Severn Beach to Bristol Temple Meads
23:33 Reading to Gatwick Airport
19/04/24 04:45 Redhill to Gatwick Airport
19/04/24 05:11 Gatwick Airport to Reading
Short Run
05:40 Bristol Temple Meads to Penzance
06:50 Bristol Temple Meads to Penzance
07:44 Didcot Parkway to London Paddington
08:38 Didcot Parkway to London Paddington
10:08 London Paddington to Didcot Parkway
15:48 Worcester Foregate Street to Bristol Temple Meads
16:39 Bristol Temple Meads to Worcester Foregate Street
16:46 Avonmouth to Weston-Super-Mare
17:10 Gloucester to Weymouth
18:53 Worcester Foregate Street to Bristol Temple Meads
Delayed
06:52 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
07:28 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads
07:31 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa
07:48 London Paddington to Swansea
07:57 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads
PollsThere are no open or recent polls
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
April 18, 2024, 08:58:28 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[59] IETs at Melksham
[53] Ferry just cancelled - train tickets will be useless - advice?
[49] From Melksham to Tallinn (and back round The Baltic) by train
[46] New station at Ashley Down, Bristol
[34] Signage - not making it easy ...
[20] Problems with the Night Riviera sleeper - December 2014 onward...
 
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Is it really about expresses or about freight paths?  (Read 1962 times)
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40782



View Profile WWW Email
« on: July 09, 2018, 07:51:42 »

For the next four weeks (Monday to Friday only, and with an exception on 13th July), TransWilts daytime trains will be replaced by buses and peak trains are retimed.   This is said to be to allow paths for express trains from the West of England to be divertd away from the line from Westbury to Reading via Newbury, which is shut for electrification work.

Rather curiously, Saturday and Sunday local trains look to be scheduled to run more or less as normal for this period, and I note some 19 freight paths (mostly marked "Q") passing along the single line section on each day this week.

Questions ... I wonder if our rail experts here can help

1. Bearing in mind that Saturday and Sunday are "as normal" and yet the line through Newbury is still closed, is it really the long distance expresses that are the straw that breaks the camel's back, or is it those freight trains that might (or might not) be running?  "Other passenger trains" is after all likely to be a more acceptable reason for passengers than "we have to run stone trains"

2. Since timetables have been recently changed to meet the engineering needs, would it be reasonable to assume that the changes also cover any reduction in service due to having fewer trains and crews available that might have been anticipated some 12 months ago when the (un-engineered) timetable was drawn up, or can we expect further very late notice cancellations and diversions?

Peak commuter services are scheduled to run, as are weekend services, with rail replacement buses scheduled off peak Monday to Friday.  And it's the railway's duty to provide alternative transport in the event of further last minute cancellations which make a massive difference to your travel plans.

Passengers between Trowbridge / Westbury and Chippenham / Swindon may travel via Bath Spa with a change there, on a lower priced "via Melksham" ticket, if their normally timetabled journey isn't practical during this period.  That's things like the morning train from Brighton which normally connects (7 minutes) into the TransWilts train, but for these four weeks arrives into Trowbridge 7 minutes after the bus has left!

Off peak tickets will also be accepted on the 2nd train from Swindon in the morning, even though it's running 25 minutes earlier than normal, and before the magic 08:49 cut off.

Thanks to GWR (Great Western Railway) for implementing these two concessions / morally the "only right thing to do" in my view, as the idea of the industry charging people more for its own closures / changing of normal services is pretty hard to defend!
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7163


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2018, 20:29:08 »

Is this relevant? Probably not, but never mind.

SNCF (Societe Nationale des Chemins de fer Francais - French National Railways) have built a "new generation mixed line", and last week announced the latest stage of its opening. That's mixed as in goods and passenger trains, and new generation in that the passenger trains are TGVs (Train a Grande Vitesse).

We are talking about the Contournement (bypass) de Nîmes et Montpellier, which opened for goods trains last December. There are two new stations on it, and the first of those - gare de Montpellier sud - opened, in that trains started using it, last Saturday. The ceremony was cancelled because the mayor of Montpellier and the president of the region are having a spat (though at least it is about trains).

It really is just on the south-eastern edge of the city, within 4 km of l'oeuf (43°35'39.45" N   3°55'20.57" E). However, it's official name is gare de Montpellier-Sud-de-France - hardly helpful, except for Bristolians - replacing the earlier suggestions of gare de Montpellier-Odysseum and gare de La Mogère, Everyone expects the obvious tram line (1) to be extended there, but there is currently no actual plan to do so, just talking and shuttle buses.

The other station is the gare de Nimes-Pont du Gard. That suggests, correctly, that it's not near Nimes; actually it's 12 km from the centre, near (not very) to  Manduel and Redessan (the station had initially been called Gare de Nîmes-Manduel-Redessan). It also suggests, incorrectly, that it's somewhere near Pont du Gard; it's 20 km away. Its opening was to be in December 2019 but has been delayed by something or other to sometime or other.

So what is the new generation way to make this traffic mix work? It's 60 km long, 50 km between the two stations, currently signalled for 220 km/hr. Their design is part of it: only Montpellier-sud is complete enough to see this on Google Earth. There is a central island platform, three tracks either side, then an outer island each side and space for a fourth track at its outer face.

That allows for one or two goods loops for regulation, and the rest must be down to timetabling and the speed of the goods trains. They say that 70% of those are already using this line, so freeing up space on the old one through Montpellier and loads of other towns. I presume enough of the goods trains are fast intermodal/container ones, many international, for a simple fixed-slot sharing (or TDMA) approach to work.

But really, the key appears to be that only 13 TGVs per day (both directions together) are planned. So there will be plenty of gaps for the goods trains. Put another way, it couldn't really be justified as a pure LGV (Large Goods Vehicle), but adding goods capacity and freeing space on the old lines bumps the BCR (Benefit Cost Ratio) over the threshold.
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40782



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2018, 07:29:48 »

Is this relevant? Probably not, but never mind.

It's a very interesting study - though perhaps a bit distant metrics-wise from my TransWilts question.    Rather than providing data about the current limits on the single tread we have, it does provide a case study as we look towards widening from that single thread, and what can then be done.

Quote
SNCF (Societe Nationale des Chemins de fer Francais - French National Railways) have built a "new generation mixed line", and last week announced the latest stage of its opening. That's mixed as in goods and passenger trains, and new generation in that the passenger trains are TGVs (Train a Grande Vitesse).

The mixed traffic, with different performance metrics, is an interesting study.   The GWR (Great Western Railway) main line east of Reading is headed towards "peas in a pod" where the main lines (at least) will have traffic maximised by all being of a similar envelope.  To the west of Reading, though, with freight and Cross Country too, and much more interaction between the lines as far as traffic distribution is concerned, the model's a bit different.

Quote
But really, the key appears to be that only 13 TGVs per day (both directions together) are planned. So there will be plenty of gaps for the goods trains. Put another way, it couldn't really be justified as a pure LGV (Large Goods Vehicle), but adding goods capacity and freeing space on the old lines bumps the BCR (Benefit Cost Ratio) over the threshold.

And that makes sense.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page