Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 14:55 28 Mar 2024
- Man held over stabbing in front of train passengers
- How do I renew my UK passport and what is the 10-year rule?
- Jet2 launches first flight from Liverpool airport
* Easter travel warning as millions set to hit roads
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
28th Mar (1988)
Woman found murdered on Orpington to London train (*)

Train RunningCancelled
13:26 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
13:28 Weymouth to Gloucester
13:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads
14:13 Par to Newquay
14:19 Westbury to Swindon
15:10 Newquay to Par
15:14 Swindon to Westbury
15:16 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
15:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington
16:04 Bristol Temple Meads to Filton Abbey Wood
16:51 Filton Abbey Wood to Bristol Temple Meads
17:04 Bristol Temple Meads to Filton Abbey Wood
17:51 Filton Abbey Wood to Bristol Temple Meads
17:54 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
Short Run
11:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central
11:29 Weymouth to Gloucester
11:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour
11:48 London Paddington to Carmarthen
12:03 London Paddington to Penzance
13:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
13:10 Gloucester to Weymouth
14:05 Salisbury to Bristol Temple Meads
15:10 Gloucester to Weymouth
15:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central
15:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour
16:19 Carmarthen to London Paddington
16:54 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
Delayed
10:04 London Paddington to Penzance
12:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour
13:57 Exmouth to Paignton
14:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour
PollsOpen and recent polls
Closed 2024-03-25 Easter Escape - to where?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 28, 2024, 15:04:08 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[142] West Wiltshire Bus Changes April 2024
[80] would you like your own LIVE train station departure board?
[56] Return of the BRUTE?
[46] If not HS2 to Manchester, how will traffic be carried?
[43] Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption el...
[34] Reversing Beeching - bring heritage and freight lines into the...
 
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
Author Topic: Making our rail corridors more productive  (Read 4722 times)
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40690



View Profile WWW Email
« on: July 12, 2018, 06:37:34 »

From an idea at The BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) for roads - why not adapt and adopt for rail?

Why not make track panels where the "4 foot" comprises Solar panels ... electrification with self-generation of electricity?

The second idea in the BBC's report - making use of verge sides as wildlife and pollination corridors is to some extent happening; adding in crop production ... well, I wonder if all those trees being felled and greener being cut back has more that maintenance / nuisance value?
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
eightf48544
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4574


View Profile Email
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2018, 08:40:24 »

From an idea at The BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) for roads - why not adapt and adopt for rail?

Why not make track panels where the "4 foot" comprises Solar panels ... electrification with self-generation of electricity?


Interesting idea would need all retention tank trains! Not sure how the panels would react to the shadow of a train.

"The second idea in the BBC's report - making use of verge sides as wildlife and pollination corridors is to some extent happening; adding in crop production ... well, I wonder if all those trees being felled and greener being cut back has more that maintenance / nuisance value?"

As for greener road corridors it could be good idea provided the vegetation/trees don't obscure the drivers view particularly at junctions. There are a couple around here which can be difficult until the verge is trimmed.
Logged
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7155


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2018, 09:44:52 »

From an idea at The BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) for roads - why not adapt and adopt for rail?

Why not make track panels where the "4 foot" comprises Solar panels ... electrification with self-generation of electricity?


Interesting idea would need all retention tank trains! Not sure how the panels would react to the shadow of a train.
Like they would a cloud - so it's not an issue.
Quote
"The second idea in the BBC's report - making use of verge sides as wildlife and pollination corridors is to some extent happening; adding in crop production ... well, I wonder if all those trees being felled and greener being cut back has more that maintenance / nuisance value?"

As for greener road corridors it could be good idea provided the vegetation/trees don't obscure the drivers view particularly at junctions. There are a couple around here which can be difficult until the verge is trimmed.

The trouble with that sort of green corridor is it's two of them with a barrier up the middle. What about the related idea of green bridges, to provide linking routes for furry etc. things across roads and railways, though? You may have seen these elsewhere - I have noticed a few on French autoroutes, and SNCF (Societe Nationale des Chemins de fer Francais - French National Railways) do boast about building them on the newer LGVs (Large Goods Vehicle). Not surprisingly their natural habitat is the Netherlands and Scandinavia.

HMG's take on them is explained here - apparently we only have a couple of them. There's an HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)) paper about them; they say they will build 14 of them. I suspect they are really road and path bridges and probably not wide enough to be properly green, though maybe that's just my scepticism as I've not seen any details.
Logged
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4256


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2018, 09:52:44 »

Sounds like a waste of solar panels to me. They work best when they're pointed at the sun (obviously!) and at a specific angle to the horizontal. Lying them flat is not so efficient. It also means they will get dirty, which is going to cut down their production far more than the occasional train or car passing over them. What we could do, far more productively, would be to install solar panels along the verges of rail or road corridors, correctly angled and all.
Logged

Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
Noggin
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 514


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2018, 10:41:31 »

Bit of an maintenance headache as well I'd imagine.

However, they are just the thing for station roofs - see the new Blackfriars station platforms across the Thames as an example.
Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5398



View Profile
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2018, 10:47:53 »

Very silly idea to put solar panels between the rails, they will get dirty and be vulnerable to damage during track repairs.

I am strongly in favour of solar energy, but more suitable places exist including on the roofs of stations and other railway buildings.
Many smaller stations lack waiting shelters on platforms, the income from solar panels could offset the cost of providing such shelters.

A handful of remote stations without any grid connection would benefit from a solar, or wind turbine installation to charge batteries for lighting.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
froome
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 901


View Profile Email
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2018, 11:18:08 »

It's good to see this discussion happening. I've long advocated putting solar panels alongside tracks on cuttings and embankments, where the angle often perfectly fits their usage. Solar can work well facing west and east as well as south, so plenty of opportunities, and it fits in well with the desire for tree removal that NR» (Network Rail - home page) has, though their placing would need to ensure that they didn't conflict with wildlife corridors. Placed high on embankments and cuttings should reduce the need for regular cleaning. Remote stations, as stated, could benefit from a shelter which also has them installed, as well as existing railway buildings. There are plenty of other imaginative opportunities along rail lines for renewable energy features. One I would have liked to see some thought given to is including into electrification plans putting up structures for the overhead lines, which would ensure they stay in position and enable solar roofs to be placed above them.
Logged
eXPassenger
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 547


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2018, 22:18:51 »

I can't wait to hear the loud agreement from the residents of Goring when the S face of the embankment is covered in solar panels.
Logged
eightonedee
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1532



View Profile
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2018, 22:35:35 »

Surely there are a number of fundamental problems if you try to use the "spare" land either side of the track for solar panels crops etc? This space is largely a working area for infrastructure work, and normally cannot be safely accessed during operating  hours except with safety restrictions on trains. I cannot see the permanent way departments (are they still called that?) welcoming having to dismantle solar panels every time they have to carry out lineside works, store the panels during work somewhere and then have to reinstall before the possession can be terminated.

As regards a wildlife habitat - it already is! It is also a dynamic habitat, with a changing selection of species as the lineside area is periodically cleared, regrows and is cut again. There are though problems when some of our furry friends who like burrowing undermine embankments and the slopes of cuttings.

Beyond a better use of station buildings for solar panels and other similar use, I'm not sure there is much mileage in this.

There is another option which is superficially attractive, namely fund major station reconstructions, by putting a transfer slab over the top and building offices, flats or retail above. The problem is that the capital commitment needed by any private sector partner to build such structures undermines the viability of such schemes, which is why Reading station has remained a station with a few extra shops on the overbridge, rather than the heart of a major town centre redevelopment. However planning permission has been granted for a major scheme at Guildford - so it will be interesting to see if the funds can be raised to deliver it.  
Logged
froome
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 901


View Profile Email
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2018, 06:05:05 »

Surely there are a number of fundamental problems if you try to use the "spare" land either side of the track for solar panels crops etc? This space is largely a working area for infrastructure work, and normally cannot be safely accessed during operating  hours except with safety restrictions on trains. I cannot see the permanent way departments (are they still called that?) welcoming having to dismantle solar panels every time they have to carry out lineside works, store the panels during work somewhere and then have to reinstall before the possession can be terminated.

As regards a wildlife habitat - it already is! It is also a dynamic habitat, with a changing selection of species as the lineside area is periodically cleared, regrows and is cut again. There are though problems when some of our furry friends who like burrowing undermine embankments and the slopes of cuttings.

Beyond a better use of station buildings for solar panels and other similar use, I'm not sure there is much mileage in this.

There is another option which is superficially attractive, namely fund major station reconstructions, by putting a transfer slab over the top and building offices, flats or retail above. The problem is that the capital commitment needed by any private sector partner to build such structures undermines the viability of such schemes, which is why Reading station has remained a station with a few extra shops on the overbridge, rather than the heart of a major town centre redevelopment. However planning permission has been granted for a major scheme at Guildford - so it will be interesting to see if the funds can be raised to deliver it.  

Which is why I'm suggesting using the higher parts of embankments and cuttings, which should be well clear of the working area needed (and clear of being shaded by passing trains). And regarding access for maintenance, there is very little need for any maintenance of panels.

On crops, was there not a tradition of using spare railway land in the past for allotment plots? Most have now gone, but a few seemed to have managed to hold on. For example, I'm sure there is still a plot on the embankment near Redland station in Bristol.
Logged
froome
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 901


View Profile Email
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2018, 06:09:04 »

I can't wait to hear the loud agreement from the residents of Goring when the S face of the embankment is covered in solar panels.

I have no knowledge of that particular embankment, but can think of several embankments and cuttings where they would cause no objection and in some would enhance the existing sight. The new embankments being built just south of Filton Abbey Wood being one example.
Logged
johnneyw
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2257


From station to station, back to Bristol city....


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2018, 14:31:05 »

I can't wait to hear the loud agreement from the residents of Goring when the S face of the embankment is covered in solar panels.

I have no knowledge of that particular embankment, but can think of several embankments and cuttings where they would cause no objection and in some would enhance the existing sight. The new embankments being built just south of Filton Abbey Wood being one example.

...until our talented young street artists discover their sprayable qualities.

Logged
4064ReadingAbbey
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 455


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2018, 15:28:57 »

SNIPPED
There is another option which is superficially attractive, namely fund major station reconstructions, by putting a transfer slab over the top and building offices, flats or retail above. The problem is that the capital commitment needed by any private sector partner to build such structures undermines the viability of such schemes, which is why Reading station has remained a station with a few extra shops on the overbridge, rather than the heart of a major town centre redevelopment. However planning permission has been granted for a major scheme at Guildford - so it will be interesting to see if the funds can be raised to deliver it.  
To respond to the second part of your post.

The issue with placing buildings over the railway is that it puts treats the passengers as second class citizens by banishing them to the basement. There have been too many awful examples of over-track development over the years - Euston, Birmingham New Street, Sunderland - dark dingy places.

One of the better results in the last few years was not placing office developments over Paddington to replace the Edwardian Span 4. The glorious roof at Paddington is one of the things that helps make train travel civilised.

Specifically in Reading - I see no need for a major town centre development. There have been a number of recent developments for retail, accommodation and office use - and a considerable quantity of the office floor space is still not let. There was a proposal, involving Sir John Madeski, of rebuilding the area between the station and Friar Street on the site of the (now demolished) 1960s building which included Western Tower (the home of the Western Region's London Division) but both it, and another subsequent proposal, both died. In any event the station at Reading is on an embankment so any development would be very high. As the Council's Local Plan requires that certain views be protected
Quote
EN5: PROTECTION OF SIGNIFICANT VIEWS WITH HERITAGE INTEREST
one of which is
Quote
2. View northwards down Southampton St from Whitley St towards St Giles Church, St
Mary’s Church and Greyfriars Church
any over station development could well fall foul of this policy.

In any event the town is over-supplied with small flats with the result that the town centre population is short term and therefore there is a lack of civic responsibility and social integration. One of the aims of the Council is to promote the building of more 3 and 4 bedroom houses so encouraging people to put down roots - and this sort of accommodation cannot be supplied over a railway line.
Logged
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4256


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2018, 17:16:30 »

I can't wait to hear the loud agreement from the residents of Goring when the S face of the embankment is covered in solar panels.

I have no knowledge of that particular embankment, but can think of several embankments and cuttings where they would cause no objection and in some would enhance the existing sight. The new embankments being built just south of Filton Abbey Wood being one example.

...until our talented young street artists discover their sprayable qualities.


I wonder how sprayable they are? I've never seen any graffiti on solar panels; but then pretty much the only ones in urban settings are on roofs. I think fences and the high voltage warning signs would probably put most taggers off, but doubtless some would still have a go.
Logged

Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5398



View Profile
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2018, 18:39:24 »

I think the PV modules on the track side might not be such a good idea, due to concerns about theft, vandalism and obstructing maintenance work.

Loads of room on station roofs though.
For new or refurbished station buildings, there is a lot to be said for the new semi-transparent PV modules, these have the actual solar cells sandwiched between two layers of toughened glass.
These modules are not intended to be put ON a roof, they ARE the roof covering. They block about 70% of the daylight and therefore avoid excessive glare or heat, the transmission of about 30% gives ample daylight below the roof.

Excellent for platform waiting areas.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page