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Author Topic: Comedian humiliated for using disabled space on train - BBC News 17th July 2018  (Read 2132 times)
the void
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« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2018, 06:36:30 am »

Here's how I imagine this might play out... The TM will be suspended pending an investigation. The RMT will release an inflammatory statement claiming 'Brother so-and-so' is being bullied and victimised. "It's not his fault, it's management's fault for not being there with him to hold his hand and tell him what to do, say and think. He doesn't get paid enough to do, say and think for himself while the Fat Cat management are lining their pockets etc etc. Renationalise Now!" The TM will then be dismissed for gross misconduct and the RMT will go into overdrive with their rhetoric, declaring a culture of bullying and victimisation. They will call for a strike of which 90% of those eligible to vote will abstain from doing so. Of the remaining 10%, 60% will vote in favour of strike action and the RMT will declare a victory with 'overwhelming' support. 4 TMs will then stand on a picket line outside of Penzance station and the RMT will bring along the national press so the world can see their solidarity for 'Brother so-and-so'. By which time everyone will have forgotten all about the original story...
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2018, 07:29:38 am »

Here's how I imagine this might play out... The TM will be suspended pending an investigation. The RMT will release an inflammatory statement claiming 'Brother so-and-so' is being bullied and victimised. "It's not his fault, it's management's fault for not being there with him to hold his hand and tell him what to do, say and think. He doesn't get paid enough to do, say and think for himself while the Fat Cat management are lining their pockets etc etc. Renationalise Now!" The TM will then be dismissed for gross misconduct and the RMT will go into overdrive with their rhetoric, declaring a culture of bullying and victimisation. They will call for a strike of which 90% of those eligible to vote will abstain from doing so. Of the remaining 10%, 60% will vote in favour of strike action and the RMT will declare a victory with 'overwhelming' support. 4 TMs will then stand on a picket line outside of Penzance station and the RMT will bring along the national press so the world can see their solidarity for 'Brother so-and-so'. By which time everyone will have forgotten all about the original story...


You are Mick Rix and I claim my £5  Cheesy
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Clan Line
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« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2018, 09:06:59 am »

Here's how I imagine this might play out... The TM will be suspended pending an investigation. The RMT will release an inflammatory statement claiming 'Brother so-and-so' is being bullied and victimised. "It's not his fault, it's management's fault for not being there with him to hold his hand and tell him what to do, say and think. He doesn't get paid enough to do, say and think for himself while the Fat Cat management are lining their pockets etc etc. Renationalise Now!" The TM will then be dismissed for gross misconduct and the RMT will go into overdrive with their rhetoric, declaring a culture of bullying and victimisation. They will call for a strike of which 90% of those eligible to vote will abstain from doing so. Of the remaining 10%, 60% will vote in favour of strike action and the RMT will declare a victory with 'overwhelming' support. 4 TMs will then stand on a picket line outside of Penzance station and the RMT will bring along the national press so the world can see their solidarity for 'Brother so-and-so'. By which time everyone will have forgotten all about the original story...

...................and, as usual, large numbers of the traveling public will be hugely inconvenienced because there will be no trains running west of Plymouth..........(not that there seem to be that many anyway at the moment !)
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2018, 11:27:22 am »

In law a mobility scooter is a Class 2 or 3 Invalid Carriage, depending on its maximum speed. A manual wheelchair is a Class 1 Invalid Carriage.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2018, 11:47:21 am »

there's more here

Quote
Disabled comedian Tanyalee Davis has criticised train company Great Western
Railway after she was “harassed and shamed” in a row over her mobility
scooter on a journey from Plymouth to London.
 
Tanyalee, who is just 3ft 6ins tall and uses the scooter to get around, found
herself in a beef with a young mother and train staff when she put her
scooter into a space reserved for wheelchair users.
 
The comedian, and her partner Kevin Bolden, were asked to move from their
seats when the woman got onto the train and wanted to put a pram into the
wheelchair space.
 
The train was halted at Taunton and Tanyalee said an announcement was made
saying the police had been called and that she was holding up the train’s
progress “indefinitely”.
 
She said she was made to feel “shamed” and “embarrassed” and blamed
for a 20-minute delay which caused passengers, including herself, to miss
their connections.
 
“It was such a horrific experience,” she said.
 
The Canadian has posted a video on social media where, tears streaming down
her face, she criticises GWR and the country for the way disabled people are
treated.
 
“I cried for most of the journey and I’m sick of this,” she said. “I
have this all the time.
 
“Just because I have a mobility scooter doesn’t make me a pariah.”
 
She added: “I don’t know what it is about this country – they really
make you feel disabled.”
 
GWR has said it wants to talk to Tanyalee about the incident but stressed it
should not have arisen and that “no one travelling with us should be left
feeling like this.”
 
Tanyaleehad headlined Plymouth Comedy Club
(https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/3ft-6ins-comic-says-gets-1772535), at
Plymouth Athenaeum, to rapturous applause on Saturday evening, July 14.
 
She was travelling back to the capital on Sunday morning, July 15, after
staying over in the city at the Derry’s Cross Travelodge.
 
Tanyalee, who has appeared on top-rated TV shows Live at the Apollo and The
Last Leg, bases much of her act around her short stature and is also a
campaigner for disabled people and against bullying.
 
She said the train did not have a disabled carriage and she had not reserved
a wheelchair space because of difficulties doing this online.
 
She placed her scooter in the empty wheelchair space in the first class
carriage and Kevin sat in an unreserved space opposite.
 
Tanyalee said there was no problem until the train left a station, possibly
Exeter, about an hour into the journey.
 
“A woman got on and there was all this commotion,” she said.
 
Tanyalee said the woman wanted to put her pram into the wheelchair space
occupied by her scooter.
 
She said a member of the train’s staff told her to “fold up the
scooter” but she said that was not practical and, in any case, “why
should I?”
 
Tanyalee said the woman with the baby then asked Kevin to vacate “her”
seat, even though it was not reserved.
 
“She kicked up a fit,” she said. “She had to have that space. It all
got escalated and he (train staff) said ‘fine, I’m calling the police’.
 
“The train stopped at Taunton and he made an announcement over the tannoy
saying it was the woman with the mobility scooter that was causing problems
and we would be delayed indefinitely.”
 
Tanyalee moved her scooter out of the carriage and Kevin left his seat.
 
But she kept having to shift the vehicle throughout the journey so it did not
block doors and she said the train staff “kept bringing it up” by
reminding passengers she was the cause of the delay.
 
“I as so embarrassed,” she said.
 
She said other passengers offered to help her but stressed the issues was
having to move her scooter.
 
“Fine if it was another wheelchair, if it had been booked, I’ve been in
that position – but it was a baby pram,” she said.
 
And the young mum involved in the incident even apologised to Tanyalee and
said: “She said she felt really bad, and I think she genuinely did.”
 
Tanyalee, who has a form of dwarfism called diastrophic dysplasia, is an
outspoken critic of the way disabled people are treated in the UK.
 
She said she is regularly harassed pointed at and even grabbed, particularly
when she is out at night on her scooter following gigs.
 
She is now the director of the anti-bullying charity Gr8 As U R, which has
been working with young people to build their self-confidence.
 
“I’m just trying to make a living, just trying to make people laugh,”
she said.
 
Tanyalee said the Plymouth Comedy Club show had been a huge hit and she had a
lovely time in the city.
 
“Plymouth is lovely,” she said. “I really enjoyed it. Brian Cross and
Kevin Brooker (Comedy Club organisers) were great hosts.
 
“I was by the water after the show and it was great.”
 
A GWR spokesman said: “No one travelling with us should be left feeling
like this.
 
“This should not have happened, and we are attempting to contact Tanyalee
so we can look into this further.”

and the BBC report which contains some of the video she has uploaded to the internet

Quote
A comedian has hit out at a train operator after she was "harassed and humiliated" for using a disabled space for her mobility scooter.

Tanyalee Davis said a guard on a Great Western Railway (GWR) service threatened to call the police if she did not leave the space.

Ms Davis said the guard then made an announcement that she was "causing problems" which had delayed the train.

GWR said staff who saw the video were "collectively horrified".

Canadian-born Ms Davis, 47, who has a form of dwarfism, was travelling on the 11:00 service from Plymouth to London on Sunday with her partner, Kevin Bolden, who filmed the incident on a mobile phone.

She was told to move from the unreserved space after a young mother asked to use it for a pram.

Ms Davis, who lives in Norwich, said she felt "personally and publicly humiliated" after the guard threatened to call the police.

"He made an announcement... saying that it was 'the woman with the mobility scooter' that was causing problems and that the train would be delayed indefinitely," she said.

"It was humiliating and I cried for most of the journey home," she said.

Ms Davis had been travelling back to Norfolk after headlining the Plymouth Comedy Club on Saturday.

n a tearful video after the journey, she said: "I don't know what it is about this country, they really make you feel disabled.

"Just because I use a mobility scooter it doesn't make me a pariah, it doesn't make me less disabled".

"I'm just trying to make a living, to make people laugh," she added.

Dan Panes, from GWR, said a team from the train company had watched Ms Davis' video and were "collectively horrified".

"We got it wrong, it made no sense. A wheelchair space is a wheelchair space, it's not for luggage or pushchairs," he admitted.

"The priority is really clear. Tanyalee should not have been asked to move."

He confirmed that an investigation is under way - but did not say if any action would be taken against the train guard involved.

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Clan Line
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« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2018, 12:18:39 pm »


The comedian, and her partner Kevin Bolden, were asked to move from their
seats when the woman got onto the train and wanted to put a pram into the
wheelchair space.

There does seem to be a lot more to this than first meets the eye. The media haven't helped by printing/broadcasting a shock/horror story which only gives one side of the story - from the "victim".
For example, ChrisB reproduces a quote, above. This quote seems to imply that the pram lady wanted: 1. Seats which weren't hers to take. 2. A disabled space to put her pram in.  One of the many reports that I have read on this episode states that the couple were asked to move from the seats that they were occupying as they had been reserved for the lady (with the pram) joining later in the journey. Who knows .............?
I'll leave GWR to sort this one out - other than saying that a large dollop of common sense might have been the best solution from the outset. Too many high horses around maybe.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2018, 12:24:39 pm »

Hmmm - GWR wouldn't allow those seats by the disabled space to be reserved except by someone needing to use such space - they have to be booked as I understand, by contacting GWR's booking line direct & won't be issued by ticket booking engines.

How someone with a pram could book them I'd like to understand, as the way things *should* work, the pram owner would have had to tell an untruth to obtain those seats.
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bignosemac
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« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2018, 01:37:41 pm »

In law a mobility scooter is a Class 2 or 3 Invalid Carriage, depending on its maximum speed. A manual wheelchair is a Class 1 Invalid Carriage.

I'm not sure whether a mobility aid can or cannot be used on the highway is of any relevance here.

What may be more pertinent is the clarification from the ORR and DfT regarding mobility scooter access to rail vehicles:

Quote

The Department for Transport (DfT) and Office of Rail and Road (ORR) have indicated that there is no clear basis for differentiating between wheelchair and mobility scooter devices, provided they meet the ‘reference wheelchair’ specification (Length: 1200mm, Width: 700mm, Height: 1350mm, Laden weight: 300kg, and have similar manoeuvrability.

And:
Quote

The Equality Act (2010) legislation was found to be unclear on whether mobility scooters have the same rights as wheelchair users in terms of the use of designated wheelchair spaces on-board trains in Great Britain. Clarifications, in response to project queries, have led to the Office of Rail and Road (ORR) and Department for Transport (DfT) interpreting the legislation to mean that both aids can reasonably be interpreted to be ‘wheelchairs’.

(Full report attached)

I strongly suspect that Tanyalee Davis' scooter easily meets those size limitations. My reasons? First she is a dwarf (her word), so no need for a large scooter. Then the fact that she was boarded at Plymouth, and settled into the unreserved disabled space on the train without issue. Reference is made in the report to some TOCs operating a mobility scooter permit scheme. This is neither compulsory nor a legal requirement. And is of little relevance to this incident as Tanyalee Davis was boarded and settled without issue. That should have been the end of the matter and she should have been allowed to complete her journey in peace.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2018, 01:52:54 pm by bignosemac » Logged

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ChrisB
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« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2018, 01:40:35 pm »

yep,yep& yep.

If you check out the video on the BBC link above, you've see that hers is one of the smaller types around & appears to easily fit those dimensions.
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Phantom
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« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2018, 02:53:59 pm »

Hmmm - GWR wouldn't allow those seats by the disabled space to be reserved except by someone needing to use such space - they have to be booked as I understand, by contacting GWR's booking line direct & won't be issued by ticket booking engines.

How someone with a pram could book them I'd like to understand, as the way things *should* work, the pram owner would have had to tell an untruth to obtain those seats.

The way I read it was that neither of them had reserved the space
The lady in question was lucky in a sense that someone didn't turn up that HAD reserved it for a wheelchair

As above these kind of stories never seem to be as they initially seem

Lessons to be learnt from ALL involved I would say
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ChrisB
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« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2018, 02:58:02 pm »

hmmm, pram owners don't have any rights to any space unless they reserve it....as I understand it
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bignosemac
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« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2018, 03:03:41 pm »

Hmmm - GWR wouldn't allow those seats by the disabled space to be reserved except by someone needing to use such space - they have to be booked as I understand, by contacting GWR's booking line direct & won't be issued by ticket booking engines.

How someone with a pram could book them I'd like to understand, as the way things *should* work, the pram owner would have had to tell an untruth to obtain those seats.

The way I read it was that neither of them had reserved the space
The lady in question was lucky in a sense that someone didn't turn up that HAD reserved it for a wheelchair

As above these kind of stories never seem to be as they initially seem

Lessons to be learnt from ALL involved I would say

The disabled space and companion seat were unreserved on departure from origin station. Not possible to reserve en route. So first disabled come, first disabled served. Tanyalee Davis and her partner were that 'first come'. They had an absolute right to be where they were and to travel in peace. They have no lessons to learn.
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« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2018, 06:36:04 pm »

Everyone is always quick to assume a baby in a pram is just a baby in a pram. I doubt wether this is the situation here but when is a baby born with a disability entitled to use the disabled spaces on public transport? 
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martyjon
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« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2018, 06:47:28 pm »

As I heard the person say, platform / despatch staff at Plymouth settled them on the train and confirmed there were no reservations. In another part of her narrative she did state that she allowed another male passenger to place his oversized holdall on her mobility scooter as it could not be accommodated on the overhead luggage rack which was already the resting place for her / her partners suitcase.

I doubt whether we will ever hear the outcome to this event as GWR will cover the event up with a statement similar to, "the company does not publically reveal details of disciplinary measures taken against its employees", in other words he'll keep his job and be free to humiliate other travellers in the future.
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bignosemac
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« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2018, 06:53:39 pm »

Everyone is always quick to assume a baby in a pram is just a baby in a pram. I doubt wether this is the situation here but when is a baby born with a disability entitled to use the disabled spaces on public transport? 

With the exact same rights as any disabled person of any age. If the person or persons with a disabled newborn wish to occupy a space set aside for the disabled then they have the right to do so. Even if said baby is in what is, or appears to be, a normal pram/buggy.
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