Should there be more onboard staff on Thames Valley locals?

[whole diary]

[devonexpress]

I live in the West Country but have used the Thames Valley locals a few times, does anyone else think that having or adding more onboard staff to the local stoppers between Paddington and Didcot should be required in the new franchise? 

The main reason I ask is because when I travlled between Reading and Didcot I felt perfectly comfortable, but closer to London I found the busy service with no other staff but the driver very daunting.  If any kind of emergency or problem where to occur, how do you grab the attention of the driver when his main and top priority is driving the train?   Whilst this may increase ticket prices by a small amount to cover the cost of extra staff I think a lot of passengers would find a benefit!

It also seems crazy that railway regulation mean that Intercity services require two staff at all times, yet local services with the same amount of carriages only require the driver.

[CMRail]

I live in the West Country but have used the Thames Valley locals a few times, does anyone else think that having or adding more onboard staff to the local stoppers between Paddington and Didcot should be required in the new franchise? 

The main reason I ask is because when I travlled between Reading and Didcot I felt perfectly comfortable, but closer to London I found the busy service with no other staff but the driver very daunting.  If any kind of emergency or problem where to occur, how do you grab the attention of the driver when his main and top priority is driving the train?   Whilst this may increase ticket prices by a small amount to cover the cost of extra staff I think a lot of passengers would find a benefit!

It also seems crazy that railway regulation mean that Intercity services require two staff at all times, yet local services with the same amount of carriages only require the driver.

I hate the idea of DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) in the future operating virtually everywhere, not only the fact that it will leave people jobless but the safety element is not very customer friendly. Most people use TV services for short trips but I would rather a ticket examiner be present for the safety and revenue areas of the trip. It also concerns me the amount of pressure put on the driver at unstaffed stations or where manual dispatch is the norm.

[CJB666]

SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) have guards / train managers. I feel safe on those. I do NOT feel safe on driver only Thameslink services. Neither do I feel safe on TfL^» (Transport for London - about) nor Heathrow Connect nor GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) locals to / from Paddington.

Re: GWR locals I feel especially threatened when the 'tissue sellers' or beggars are on board harassing pax. for donations. I always say 'no' and opine that they are on benefits anyway so why are they begging on the trains? The women always have there fellas with them (armed with knives?), and these can be very threatening.

Then there is the endemic issue of scum without tickets, and those with their feet up on the seats.

SWR sometimes makes announcements about not putting feet on the seats. Good for them.

[eightonedee]

But - do bear in mind that staff cost!

I can understand concerns at travelling late at night without a guard/passenger, but do bear in mind that trains now have CCTV^▸ (Closed Circuit Tele Vision). I have recently been to Vancouver, where the Sky Train Metro system runs with entirely unmanned trains - and it seemed to work well, without the toy train feel of the DLR^▸ (Docklands Light Railway).  The inner Thames Valley services will soon be largely Elizabeth Line/Crossrail, with wide corridor connections like the new District Circle line trains so much better visibility too.

If all trains in the inner Thames Valley had to run with extra staff the cost would be considerable - 7 to 11 trains an hour for much of the day, trains running through most hours (presumably meaning a three shift a day roster) means a lot of staff, when the railways clearly have problems recruiting sufficient staff.

There are ways of summoning help - it's a shame we have the patronising "see it, say it, sorted" campaign, instead of clear stickers on windows or seatbacks with the phone and text numbers. The signs about the CCTV are hardly conspicuous, and if they were they must surely discourage anti-social behaviour. It might be better and more cost effective if we had some security staff who get on and off trains during the day and are ready to respond when calls or texts are made,rather than insisting on a train manager on each train.

[CJB666]

When Heathrow Connect started incessant announcements were made in an aggressive tone regarding non-payment of fares, and CTV monitoring. And there were regular ticket checks. But even then scum put their feet up on the seats because no-one stopped them.

Then one day there was a knife attack on a member of staff - so much for CCTV^▸ (Closed Circuit Tele Vision).

And now there are no ticket checks, no extra staff, there is endemic non-payment of fares between minor stations, and scum still put their feet up on the now thread bare seats.

[TaplowGreen]

SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) have guards / train managers. I feel safe on those. I do NOT feel safe on driver only Thameslink services. Neither do I feel safe on TfL^» (Transport for London - about) nor Heathrow Connect nor GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) locals to / from Paddington.

Re: GWR locals I feel especially threatened when the 'tissue sellers' or beggars are on board harassing pax. for donations. I always say 'no' and opine that they are on benefits anyway so why are they begging on the trains? The women always have there fellas with them (armed with knives?), and these can be very threatening.

Then there is the endemic issue of scum without tickets, and those with their feet up on the seats.

SWR sometimes makes announcements about not putting feet on the seats. Good for them.

I use these services on a daily basis and to be honest I cannot remember the last time I saw a beggar/"tissue seller" on board, I think perhaps you're getting a bit carried away on that one - agreed re: non paying customers (I hesitate before using words like "scum") but even if there were an extra member of staff on board, services are frequently so overcrowded past Southall (heading into London) that they wouldn't be able to move through the train anyway.


There's nothing to stop the likes of me and you asking people to take their feet/bags etc off seats, I do sometimes, if you ask politely they most often will and are embarrassed at getting called out, there will always be some who will tell you to Foxtrot Oscar but they would do the same if it was a GWR bod in a hat.

[CJB666]

There are ways of summoning help - it's a shame we have the patronising "see it, say it, sorted" campaign, instead of clear stickers on windows or seatbacks with the phone and text numbers.

Last year I was at Paddington. There was a bearded and berobed gentleman - IYKWIM - lurking around platform 12, mumbling to himself and pacing up and down. I informed the gateline staff member there who 1/ showed complete disinterest, 2/ was more interested in whatever was on his smart phone screen, 3/ basically totally ignored me, and 4/ when I persisted in voicing my concerns condescendingly looked in my direction, gave me a withering look, and went back to the smart phone.

Said bearded and berobed gentleman persisted in his unusual behaviour.

I then went to the station manager's office by platform 1. The attitude there was something like 'not our problem' try Network Rail.

Its the same arrogance and can't be ar$ed attitude I get from the BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) and NR^» (Network Rail - home page) staff when I complain about smokers on the 'wrong' side of Station Approach from Praed Street. I get the response 'we'll have a word.' But then said member of staff walks off in the opposite direction.

And as for endemic tissue sellers they ARE condoned by GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) - because any reports about them on trains are routinely ignored.

[broadgage]

I see little benefit in adding more railway staff since their powers are very limited and they have a tendency to hide when most needed.

A better idea IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) would be to have police officers, or at least PCSOs on board. Not on every train but on a significant number. Concentrate on services known to be problematic.

[TaplowGreen]

Last year I was at Paddington. There was a bearded and berobed gentleman - IYKWIM - lurking around platform 12, mumbling to himself and pacing up and down.

......................was it Santa Claus? Could possibly have lost his reindeer and the mumbling was him trying to remember their names?

[Oxonhutch]

A better idea IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) would be to have police officers, or at least PCSOs on board.

We could call them the 'British Transport Police' and they could protect the passengers, assets and revenue of the Train Operating Companies.

Just below 'ticketless travel', I would address 'feet on seats'. Threat of a collar-feeling might change people's life choices.

[devonexpress]

Does everything on this forum have to end up with stupid childish sarky comments?

CCTV^▸ (Closed Circuit Tele Vision) doesn't stop anything nor does it prevent it. What's needed is a mix of both onboard staff and BTP^▸ (British Transport Police), I personally would rather pay an extra quid or two on my return ticket if it meant having staff on board rather than no staff and potential hazards.

People seem to forget that not only do they check tickets, but they also are required for safety measures such as on train evacuation, medical assistance.  Currently on DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)), the driver would have to stop, deal with the emergency then either move the train to a station or get emergency staff near to the train, with a guard onboard the train could continue to a station and have the services hopefully at the station or a few minutes away.  In relation to power failures what is to stop passengers opening the doors and leaving the train of their own will, nothing. If there was a fire, how many would know what to do or follow instructions, how can the driver on his own evacuate an 8 coach Electrostar if the fire was in the middle?

I know some services already have extra staff onboard so what is to stop them expanding it to all or most services.

[JayMac]

Last year I was at Paddington. There was a bearded and berobed gentleman - IYKWIM

(Look away devonexpress. You might consider this reply to CJB666 as sarcastic and childish )

I have an idea what you might mean, but could you expand further so we don't have to assume.

Was he one of following uttering prayers? A Buddhist monk? Perhaps a Sikh Granthi? A Haredi Jew? Maybe it was The Right Reverend and Right Honourable The Lord Williams of Oystermouth, former Archbishop of Canterbury.

They all can be, or are, bearded and berobed.

As for DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)). Its been with us for over 30 years. The perceived less safe environment is not borne out by statistics.

[Richard Fairhurst]

Was he one of following uttering prayers? A Buddhist monk? Perhaps a Sikh Granthi? A Haredi Jew? Maybe it was The Right Reverend and Right Honourable The Lord Williams of Oystermouth, former Archbishop of Canterbury.

I 'ad that Rowan Williams in the back of my congregation once.

No, really, I did. It was Christmas Eve at our little parish church; he had a holiday home in Charlbury. Nothing focuses the mind more on playing the right notes for 'O come all ye faithful' than the Archbishop of Canterbury sitting in the front row.

[devonexpress]

Last year I was at Paddington. There was a bearded and berobed gentleman - IYKWIM

(Look away devonexpress. You might consider this reply sarcastic and childish )

I have an idea what you might mean, but could you expand further so we don't have to assume.

Was he one of following uttering prayers? A Buddhist monk? Perhaps a Sikh Granthi? A Haredi Jew? Maybe it was The Right Reverend and Right Honourable The Lord Williams of Oystermouth, former Archbishop of Canterbury.

They all can be, or are, bearded and berobed.

As for DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)). Its been with us for over 30 years. The perceived less safe environment is not borne out by statistics.

I have specifically asked you more than once to stop harassing me, yet you continue to do so, to the point of stalking now!

[TaplowGreen]

Last year I was at Paddington. There was a bearded and berobed gentleman - IYKWIM

(Look away devonexpress. You might consider this reply sarcastic and childish )

I have an idea what you might mean, but could you expand further so we don't have to assume.

Was he one of following uttering prayers? A Buddhist monk? Perhaps a Sikh Granthi? A Haredi Jew? Maybe it was The Right Reverend and Right Honourable The Lord Williams of Oystermouth, former Archbishop of Canterbury.

They all can be, or are, bearded and berobed.

As for DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)). Its been with us for over 30 years. The perceived less safe environment is not borne out by statistics.

I have specifically asked you more than once to stop harassing me, yet you continue to do so, to the point of stalking now!

What a ridiculous comment. We have debates in this Forum, occasionally vigorous debates, myself & BNM have had a few between us but I'd never accuse him of something like that, I take it in the spirit and context it's intended.

If you comment on something in a Forum, you're responding to someone else & inviting a response in turn.That response might not necessarily agree with your own point of view.....it would be a rather boring World if it always did?

I think you ought to withdraw your last comment with all that it implies.