Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 17:35 18 Apr 2024
* Dubai airport delays persist after UAE storm
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
18th Apr (2018)
SEWWEB leaflet launched and Aztec West (link)

Train RunningCancelled
15:48 London Paddington to Carmarthen
15:54 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
16:58 London Paddington to Great Malvern
17:04 Didcot Parkway to Moreton-In-Marsh
17:54 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
18:04 Bristol Temple Meads to Filton Abbey Wood
18:43 Bristol Temple Meads to Westbury
18:51 Evesham to Oxford
18:51 Filton Abbey Wood to Bristol Temple Meads
18:53 Worcester Foregate Street to Bristol Temple Meads
19:14 Bristol Temple Meads to Avonmouth
19:46 Avonmouth to Bristol Temple Meads
22:24 Bristol Temple Meads to Severn Beach
23:08 Severn Beach to Bristol Temple Meads
23:33 Reading to Gatwick Airport
19/04/24 04:45 Redhill to Gatwick Airport
19/04/24 05:11 Gatwick Airport to Reading
Short Run
15:10 Gloucester to Weymouth
Additional 15:20 Bristol Parkway to Weymouth
15:52 London Paddington to Great Malvern
16:26 Frome to Bristol Temple Meads
16:39 Bristol Temple Meads to Worcester Foregate Street
16:46 Avonmouth to Weston-Super-Mare
16:54 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
17:10 Gloucester to Weymouth
19:05 Great Malvern to London Paddington
19:13 Salisbury to Bristol Temple Meads
20:50 Bristol Temple Meads to Weymouth
Delayed
14:23 Swansea to London Paddington
14:48 London Paddington to Swansea
16:18 London Paddington to Swansea
16:48 London Paddington to Swansea
18:18 Carmarthen to London Paddington
PollsThere are no open or recent polls
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
April 18, 2024, 17:36:34 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[159] Rail delay compensation payments hit £100 million
[56] Signage - not making it easy ...
[28] IETs at Melksham
[25] Ferry just cancelled - train tickets will be useless - advice?
[23] From Melksham to Tallinn (and back round The Baltic) by train
[22] New station at Ashley Down, Bristol
 
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Lacock West Curve, Bradford North Curve  (Read 2680 times)
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40783



View Profile WWW Email
« on: September 16, 2018, 12:53:32 »

TransWilts trains run Swindon - Chippenham - Melksham - Trowbridge - Westbury with some extensions Dilton Marsh - Warminster - Salisbury - Romsey - Southampton Central.

A massive passenger flow from Melksham is to Bath and Bristol. By train, passengers change at either Chippenham or Trowbridge, and double back onto London to Bristol (via Chippenham) services, or Portsmouth / Weymouth / Local to Bristol / Cardiff (via Trowbridge) services.

There used to be curves in place at Lacock (known as Lacock or Thingley West Curve) and to the north of Trowbridge (known as Bradford North Curve) which allowed direct running from Melksham to Bath.  Map:



Lacock curve in blue
Bradford curve in orange
x - current station (shown with industry 3 letter code)
| - foreseeable station at a future date

The Lacock curve was a wartime addition which allowed freight traffic from the south to be marshalled / stabled at Lacock sidings - to the north of Melksham - until required at the defence facilities at Corsham. It was taken out of service after the second world war, with many other facilities that were no longer required in peacetime.

The Bradford curve survived until 1990 - that is until AFTER Melksham station had been re-opened in 1985. Until the Beeching era, there were through train services from London to Bristol via the Berks and Hants, Devizes, Holt Junction (just to the south of Melksham), around the curve to Bradford-on-Avon, then on to Bath and Bristol.  There was also a weekday commuter train from Melksham via Bradford on Avon to Bath Spa and Bristol prior to Melksham's 1966 closure.  After 1966, the curve was little used and it was removed in 1990 when the Westbury area was resignalled - stories differ as to why; one story suggests that the people planning the new signalling forgot about it, a second that there was no power available for the points at the west junction and it was uneconomic to provide it, and the third suggestion is than with sectorisation, no sector would take responsibility for it.

Today, the Lacock curve is largely forgotten about through the path can be very clearly seen along field boundaries from a satellite picture, and there's no apparent building, road crossings, dropped bridges along the way. The Bradford curve is also very clear to see, again without any apparent obstacles to relaying a track; the old trackbed is used as a track for (road) vehicle access - I suspect for rail land purposes.

With the coming of a second local train per hour from Bristol via Bath comes a question "where does it turn round?". Bathampton, Westbury, Frome, Chippenham, Swindon and Oxford have all been mentioned. With the Lacock curve re-instated, further attractive options might open up (and it would act as an enabler for Corsham station too, proving a local service passing through the site).  But lets park that idea and look at the other curve.

There has been a great deal of interest in re-opening the Bradford Curve.  Indeed, the re-instatement of the curve for diverted London to Bristol expresses during 'electrification' works on Box tunnel was actually in the plans, but the re-instatement was replaced by the cheaper option of changing the signalling at the existing Bradford Junction so that multiple unit trains can now be reversed there, away from any station.

There is little doubt of the strong passenger flows from Melksham to Bath and Bristol, and subsidiary flows from Chippenham to Bradford-on-Avon, which a regular service along a Bradford Curve could enable.  And - should electrification work be resumed on the direct line through Box tunnel from Chippenham to Bath Spa, and at times of engineering diversion, it would also be useful. However, as things stand it would pour heavier demand than the single line from the Trowbridge area up to Chippenham can cope with.  We already have reliability issues when trains are diverted or running late through Melksham, and adding in more services without significant line investment would make things worse.

A suggestion that existing Swindon to Westbury trains (or some of them) be diverted to Bath and Bristol is a none-starter. There is more traffic from Chippenham (and Swindon) to Trowbridge (and Westbury) than there is to / from Melksham - 25% of the traffic was Melksham when the service was improved for 2014, and it's now roughly 40% and growing, but Trowbridge and Westbury traffic (including Trowbridge and Westbury to/from Melksham traffic) is vital to the success of the service and to the line as a whole, and it would be madness to redirect all the services onto a Swindon - Chippenham - Melksham - Bradford on Avon and stations to Bath Spa and Bristol Temple Meads route.   Redirecting half the trains would (in my opinion) give you the worst of both worlds - a very infrequent through service to anywhere to the south west of Melksham with unnecessary complexity in giving users timetable / journey information.

TransWilts services need to be stepped up to hourly.  And linked southwards to Salisbury and the Solent area. Different thread / post. And that requires significant infrastructure improvements to the currently-single line section between Chippenham and Trowbridge.   Whether that is in the form of a passing loop, multiple loops, redoubling the line - I pass to industry experts who have been commissioned to take a look and work it out. That's not just for the hourly passenger train - that's also for a massive increase in freight that we foresee from multiple sources.  Yet even when the service is stepped up to hourly, I'm going to suggest that it should remain consistent and become clock face - no dilution of alternate services headed around a new corner to Bath, and no diverting the whole services and turning a North - South TransWilts service into just another route from Swindon to Bristol.

Melksham passenger journey numbers are around 75,000 per annum at present. That's up from around 3,000 which were the figures I was given by the ORR» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) (now "Office for Rail and Road" though the initials were for the "Office of the Rail Regulator" at that time.  Comparing Melksham to other rail served towns in the area, I would not be surprised to see those figures increase 5 to 10 fold over the next decade - but that's based on services being stepped up to a suitable level, with sufficient passenger capacity, reliability, pricing, Melksham Station being able to cope, etc. By that stage, we would be looking at 2 passenger trains per hour each way, and at that point alternate trains to Bath and Bristol via a re-instated Bradford curve could make sense.  Evaluation needed - but it would be sensible to look at it.

I would suggest that in any redoubling / resignalling / adding of loops, a minimum of passive provision is made for re-instatement of the Bradford North Curve. And the curve could - if provided early - be useful for engineering diversions.  As an early "for example", the 12 day closure of Westbury over Christmas and New Year 2018/19 threatens no trains at all calling at Melksham from Saturday 22nd December 2018 to Friday 4th January 2019.  It also reduces local trains from Bradford-on-Avon into Bristol to hourly, local services (according to early data) at Avoncliff, Freshford, Oldfield Park and Keynsham only served every 2 or 3 hours by Weymouth trains.  In fact, I have asked about a Swindon to Bristol service on the Melksham section rather than buses and await an answer; seems to me it would solve a whole series of problems, using the reversal north of Trowbridge.

So - to summarise. Lacock curve - long shot, but you never know. Bradford curve - not yet, its too early (at least for a regular through-the-day passenger service) but do make passive provision / add it in when works are being done. Beyond foreseeable - put in both curves and run Bristol Metro on a loop Bristol - Bath - Corsham - Melksham - Bradford-on-Avon - Bath - Bristol, half hourly service alternating directions in addition to the Swindon to Westbury, extended into an Oxford to Southampton and perhaps into a Bedford to Fawley.



It should be noted that there is an excellent bus service from Melksham to Bath - and I would recommend this in preference to the train for most journeys at present.  For Melksham to Bristol, you have to change anyway - and train is going to be optimum. Care needs to be taken if a train service were to run direct from Melksham to Bath to ensure that all customers including intermediate bus passengers remain catered for.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
RA
Transport Scholar
Sr. Member
******
Posts: 201


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2018, 20:01:06 »

An interesting post. Even though the Bradford North Chord was removed in 1990, as mentioned the replacement multiple aspect signalling allows trains to reverse at Bradford Junction from both the Melksham and Bradford on Avon routes. There is nothing to prevent a train running from Melksham to Bradford on Avon or vice versa (or even back along the same route. A train from Bristol could terminate at Bradford on Avon, run to Bradford Junction, reverse and then head back towards Bristol). The time penalty for changing ends on a multiple unit is only a couple of minutes. I would prefer to see the reversible stretch of line to the south of Bradford Junction extended through to Trowbridge station to allow a reversal at a station and provide connectional opportunities instead of reversing to the north of the station as at present.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 20:10:06 by RA » Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40783



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2018, 01:34:27 »

I would prefer to see the reversible stretch of line to the south of Bradford Junction extended through to Trowbridge station to allow a reversal at a station and provide connectional opportunities instead of reversing to the north of the station as at present.

So would I; we were disappointed that this was not done as part of the process of putting in the reversing capability a couple of years ago.  Explanation given was that reversal at the station work have cost a couple of minutes of extra running time (each way?) and it would have cost more money to put in additionally.

Reversal just south of the junction does block the main line; OK for a couple of minutes but not really as a regular and frequent turn back. Interestingly, had the curve been put back in that could have doubled as a turn back siding and been the terminus for the new MetroWest service.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
eightf48544
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4574


View Profile Email
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2018, 17:10:46 »

It seems to me that the Bradford North curve should be used for a Bristol London hourly semi fast. and diversions.

There should also be an hourly Swindon vis Melksham to Westbury possibly Salisbury Salisbury.

The problem those services would require Thingly Jn  Bradford North to be doubled as well and reinstatement of  the 4th platform at Westbury. Which would be prohibitorily expensive unless Network Rail can cut its cost drastically.

 Last year I travelled for Weymouth to Bristol on the late morning train it amazed me how many rolls that train fulfilled from Reginal Express (RE (Religious Education)) Weymouth Yeovil Bath Bristol, Regionalbahn (RB) serving intermediate stations to Westbury and S bahn from Trowbridge  (maybe Westbury?) with passengers joining and leaving the train at most of  the intermediate stops.

It is very difficult for one train to full fill all three rolls, you need a reasonably comfortable fairly speedy train for the RE, You need slightly less posh train for the RB and a high density train for for the S Bahn. 
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page