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Author Topic: TurboStar (class 170 to 172) - hybrid conversion  (Read 3708 times)
grahame
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« on: September 19, 2018, 16:56:54 »

From Reuters

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Diesel trains can be fitted with Rolls-Royce Hybrid PowerPacks to turn them into hybrid trains that can also run on battery power, reducing carbon emissions and making them cheaper to run for operators while also making them much quieter when, for example, they approach stations.

The hybrid initiative comes as Britain seeks to phase out diesel-only trains by 2040. Adding the powerpacks to trains allows railway networks to be partially electrified without the need for expensive overhead infrastructure.

The Institution of Mechanical Engineers says that 42 percent of Britain’s rail network is currently electrified, which means that the country lags behind electrification rates in other European nations.

Last year the British government scrapped electrification projects in some parts of the country, saying it would look to hybrid technology trains instead.

Rolls-Royce also said it has signed a test deal with Ireland’s Iarnrod Eireann, which could see up to 234 of its powerpacks fitted across the Irish rail network.

“We’re going into serious production now. No more R&D projects, no more demonstrators. Serious production,” Schell said.

Rolls-Royce and Porterbrook said in a statement that after initial trials on two trains in 2020, Porterbrook aims to offer the hybrid conversion to a range of its rail company customers who operate Turbostar trains, of which it has 182 on lease across the country.

Article seems a bit light on how the batteries get charged?
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« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2018, 18:17:20 »

Article seems a bit light on how the batteries get charged?

The hybrid power pack contains an MTU (Motor Traction Unit) diesel engine, that's how. This is from Rolls Royce's press release abut the Porterbrook project:
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The MTU Hybrid PowerPack is an environmentally friendly drive system which combines the advantages of diesel and battery-powered rail traction. The version for Porterbrook incorporates an MTU diesel engine which fulfils future EU» (European Union - about) Stage V emissions regulations; plus an electric machine, which can be used either as an electric motor or generator; and an MTU EnergyPack battery system, which stores the energy recovered during braking. This enables very low-noise, emissions-free battery-only electric operation in urban areas and around stations.

The engine is a 6H 1800, rated at 315-390 kW at NRMM IIIB - I can't see a stage V one. Hybrid cars use a lower-power engine and give it a boost from the battery for peaks. Trains tend to run at full power when at full speed, at least the faster ones do - so maybe this would only work for non-fast (is that "regional"?) ones.
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« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2018, 18:48:04 »

Wasn't SWR» (South Western Railway - about) supposed to look into the feasibility of converting a 159 unit to diesel electric so it could work on third rail when available?
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« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2018, 20:39:03 »

Wasn't SWR» (South Western Railway - about) supposed to look into the feasibility of converting a 159 unit to diesel electric so it could work on third rail when available?

Possibly, but given that they are nearly 30 years old it is unlikely that it's got much mileage in it, if you'll pardon the pun.

As far as I can see these are the rail equivalent of a diesel hybrid car - i.e. no battery charging or running off 3rd rail/OHLE.

I rather suspect that they have re-powering the 170's, and possibly the 165/166/168's in mind, which would mean that they could have their engines turned off whilst in the likes of Marylebone, New Street, Snow Hill, Bristol Temple Meads etc, and pootle around inner city areas on electric, thus reducing some of the worst effects of using diesel engines.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2018, 14:38:50 »

From The Times

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The rattle and reek of diesel engines at railway stations could become a thing of the past after the launch of new technologies to bring zero and low-emission science to the nation’s dirtier trains.

Birmingham University has signed a deal with Porterbrook, a privatised train leasing company, to begin testing Hydroflex — the country’s first hydrogen train, which could be ready for dummy runs next year.

The university’s Birmingham Centre for Railway Research and Education, which employs 130 academics, researchers and professional staff, says that it can produce a train that runs on hydrogen fuel cells without any need for a back-up diesel engine. It also would be able to hook up on electrified lines.

Helen Simpson, of Porterbrook, said that there was interest in hydrogen because of its potential as a means of energy storage, adding that hydrogen power could smooth demand for electricity.

The project has the backing of Chris Grayling, the transport secretary, who has struggled to deliver mainline electrification projects while promising to decarbonise the network and remove diesel trains by 2040.

The Hydroflex’s leap forward comes as Porterbrook separately announced plans to team up with MTU (Motor Traction Unit), Rolls-Royce’s train engine-making division, to begin converting Porterbrook’s Turbostar diesel fleet to hybrids.

The plan is to operate trains with Rolls-Royce’s hybrid powerpacks so that much of their journey is on a battery charge rather than on the diesel engine.

“We hope this well enable us to offer wider fleet fitment of this technology so that [train operators] can reduce both emissions and operating costs, as well as improve air quality along urban corridors,” Mary Grant, Porterbrook’s chief executive, said. “Operating with very little sound will offer additional benefits to the railways’ near-neighbours.”

Angel, a rival train leasing company, is on the same journey. It is working with Chiltern Railways, the London Marylebone-to-Birmingham commuter operator, which runs on unelectrified tracks, and Magtec, a Sheffield-based electric drive engineer. Angel said that it was aiming to convert its diesel Class 165s to a hybrid drive called Hydrive. Angel is to invest £3.5 million in the project.

Dave Penney, Chiltern managing director, said: “This will help us to be a better neighbour as well as answering the government’s challenge to reduce railway carbon emissions.”
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stuving
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« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2019, 20:30:55 »

I found a more recent news item about this, and had some problems finding this thread. So, would the search function's little helpers please note:

The last post was about Hydroflex, using hydrogen fuel cells - and has nothing to do with the thread's subject (other than Porterbrook and their trains).

Porterbrook's hybrid trains project with Rolls-Royce (MTU (Motor Traction Unit)) is now called Hybridflex. Ricardo are involved as engineers on this one, but not on hydroflex. Presumably they will be looking for new takers for the ex-West Midlands Railway 170s, rather than (as the original Reuters item said) for users of 170s to ask for their trains to be hybridified.

I still can't find anything on an MTU engine or power pack to NRMM stage V, but the current one to stage IIIB (type 6H 1800 R85L) is used by CAF in the class 195 trains for Arriva Northern.

The class 195's generators are not hybrid, though a hybrid version is offered as a standard product, so the hybridflex project is "just" a systems integration exercise.
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grahame
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« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2019, 21:17:40 »

Unless I taking this thread even further off by discussing contextual search algorithms in drifting threads, auto-split and auto-join ...

The simple search box for individual words or part word at the top of all our pages should help, and you can wildcard with _ for any 1 character, % for any multiple characters.  Anything but letters, digits, _ and % and it panics and looks  for Rosslare.   On my list for improvement.
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« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2021, 17:04:58 »

This Hybridflex train was officially unveiled - or launched, or whatever - yesterday. Chiltern were having a birthday party as well (25 years). This was Porterbrook's take on the event:
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Chiltern Railways celebrates 25th anniversary with launch of greener and quieter HybridFLEX train

  • Chiltern Railways and partners invest in green HybridFLEX train, delivering emission-free battery operation, reducing CO2 by up to 25%, nitrous oxide by up to 70% and particulates by up to 90%
  • Rail Minister Chris Heaton-Harris MP (Member of Parliament) supported the launch event at Marylebone station, before key stakeholders travelled on board HybridFLEX, Britain’s first hybrid battery-diesel train
  • Chiltern – the operator of train services between Birmingham, Oxford and London – today celebrates 25 years of continuous service for customers

Chiltern Railways marked 25 years of achievement as a train operator with a celebration event at London Marylebone Station and the launch of HybridFLEX – Britain’s first battery-diesel train. Chiltern is currently an all-diesel operator with an average fleet age of 25 years. A key priority for the operator is to help deliver decarbonisaiton for the UK (United Kingdom) by investing in innovation.

Long-serving Chiltern colleagues were joined at Marylebone Station by regional stakeholders and rail industry executives, prior to the train travelling to Bicester Village on its maiden journey.

The HybridFLEX train arrived into London Marylebone station at 10:00 on 21 July. Following a programme of speeches, the guests took a closer look at the HybridFLEX train before it departed from the station at 10:30. The train arrived at Bicester Village at 11:20 where there were further activities to commemorate Chiltern’s silver anniversary.

HybridFLEX train

HybridFLEX is the product of collaboration between rolling stock owner and asset manager Porterbrook and engineering giant Rolls-Royce. As well as offering zero emissions and near silent operation at stations, the Rolls-Royce Hybrid PowerPack will also reduce fuel consumption and so CO2 emissions by up to 25%, Nitrous Oxide (NOx) emissions by over 70% and particulate emissions by over 90%, compared to the engines it replaces.

Chiltern is delighted to be trialling this new technology to demonstrate that it can contribute to better air quality, decarbonisation and the aim of removing traditional diesel trains from its network. The HybridFLEX aims to enter full passenger service from September this year.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2021, 17:12:22 »


Rail Minister Chris Heaton-Harris MP (Member of Parliament) supported the launch event at Marylebone station,

By Zoom - another Minister self-isolating having been 'pinged' by the app....
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stuving
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« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2021, 17:23:15 »

I've always been a bit puzzled by the transmission arrangements of these MTU (Motor Traction Unit) hybrid powerpacks, but I think I've tracked down some of the details.

This is a parallel hybrid, in which the diesel drives the wheels (one bogie, both axles, by Cardan shaft) via a  gearbox described as mechanical. This appears to be a ZF-EcoLife Rail 6-speed torque converter unit. It's based on their ZF-EcoLife bus gearboxes, though obviously a bit bigger.

The battery is charged and discharged via a reversible motor (or "electrical machine"), which is actually concentric with the drive shaft through the middle. This is can brake the train, add its power to the engine's, or drive the train alone where diesels are unwelcome. I've no data on what clutches it has to switch the power flow, but I guess it'll have some.

The 6H 1800 R75/R85 engine comes in power ratings of 315-390 kW, and the motor/generator can handle 370 kVA. But in practice the batteries you can fit in a British DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) will be rated at less than that, around 150 kW I think in this case.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2021, 17:28:24 »

Intended to be used for battery power while at terminuses/depots, rather than while operating, to reduce emissions while idling/servicing. So it would leave Marylebone under battery but switch up to diesel once out of Lords tunnel.
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stuving
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« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2023, 15:31:46 »

According to the Evening Standard, the curse of Porterbrook's re-engineering department has struck again:
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Disappointment as Chiltern Railways scraps hybrid train plans
By Simon Hunt   

Chiltern Railways has quietly scrapped its plans to introduce hybrid trains from services in London after reports of “unacceptably poor” air quality in the area surrounding its Marylebone terminus, the Standard can reveal.

The Arriva-owned operator last year introduced trial rolling stock which used batteries in combination with a diesel engine in a bid to reduce emissions in city centres. But it has since abandoned the project with the train no longer in service at present. The firm said increased costs meant the technology was no longer viable.

That first sentence is problematic on several levels. For a start, it's that dodgy journalists' usage of "after" to mean "because", but with added deniability. Then I read it first to say that reports of poor air quality led to the cancellation. It's one of those cases (which are quite common in English) where nothing in the grammar tells you what the second part refers back to.

And then ... higher costs of what? What price Marylebone's cleaner air? I was going to ask how much longer can Helen Simpson survive (as Innovation and Projects Director), but she announced last month that she has retired (rather quietly, it seems).
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Ralph Ayres
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« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2023, 22:37:05 »

A quick Google seems to show that the Evening Standard article is the only source of this so far and everything else just regurgitates it warts and all.  I too struggled with that first sentence but I'm pretty sure the reference to unacceptably poor air quality is a complete red herring, and actually relates only to the reason for having the trial in the first place, ie wanting to replace pure diesels with something better, rather than explaining the abandonment of the trial.

What price Marylebone's cleaner air? Well, if it ultimately pushes up rail fares enough to send people back to their (generally more polluting overall) cars, then that's a price too high.  Chiltern are though now tendering for more environmentally-friendly replacement trains so they haven't given up on the whole concept, just this particular approach.
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« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2023, 08:27:04 »

I can understand doing a trial for proof of concept using existing / redundant rolling stock, the UK (United Kingdom) railways have done this for most of their existence.  There will be many things learnt on the hybrid conversion. 

Putting traction batteries on electric traction units to infill no electrified areas is proving challenging, its not the batteries but the amount of energy to charge the batteries in the turn around times.  I would think part of the issue with the 172 hybrid is the capacity size of the batteries need to traverse the point where the diesels are shutdown or just to idle also the energy / time required to charge the batteries during the turn around time at Marylebone

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