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Author Topic: CrossCountry Franchise Competition "Will Not Proceed"  (Read 10430 times)
Lee
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« on: September 20, 2018, 02:24:27 am »

From the DfT:

Quote from: DfT
The department has reviewed all ongoing franchise competitions and other live rail projects in the context of the rail review. Due to the unique geographic nature of the Cross Country franchise, which runs from Aberdeen to Penzance and cuts across multiple parts of the railway, awarding this franchise in 2019 could impact on the reviewís conclusions.

It has therefore been decided that this competition will not proceed. Services will continue to be operated by the existing franchisee with options beyond this to be considered in due course. The department will consider the responses to the Cross Country public consultation in the development of future options for the franchise.

All other ongoing franchise competitions and other live rail projects are continuing as planned.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2018, 08:56:55 am »

Simply because XC/Arriva were the only entrant....no one else expressed an interest.
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Timmer
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« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2018, 09:13:09 am »

Simply because XC/Arriva were the only entrant....no one else expressed an interest.
Exactly!

Another franchise desperate for a long term strategy that's been kicked into the long grass yet again.
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grahame
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« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2018, 09:23:37 am »

Simply because XC/Arriva were the only entrant....no one else expressed an interest.
Exactly!

Another franchise desperate for a long term strategy that's been kicked into the long grass yet again.

So much work and effort has been put into looking forward at whet the Cross Country network of services needs for the next decade.

However fit for purpose the current setup was when it was put into place, it is now very clearly creaking around some of the seams (if not most of them) and it needs an update to the setup - and perhaps to the definition of process - and not just "carry on as you are" into the undefined and perhaps distant future.

I do hope that all the work and analysis on what's needed for the future is heeded, implemented as appropriate and not just parked for "sometime/perhaps/aspiration" as the current service creaks onward untuned for the future.
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ZoŽ
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« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2018, 09:45:07 am »

However fit for purpose the current setup was when it was put into place, it is now very clearly creaking around some of the seams (if not most of them) and it needs an update to the setup - and perhaps to the definition of process - and not just "carry on as you are" into the undefined and perhaps distant future.

I do hope that all the work and analysis on what's needed for the future is heeded, implemented as appropriate and not just parked for "sometime/perhaps/aspiration" as the current service creaks onward untuned for the future.
In the future HS2 will take a significant amount of intercity travel away from the XC core.  I just hope it does not get decided to leave XC as is until then.
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eightonedee
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« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2018, 08:20:42 pm »

Quote
Topic Summary
Posted on: Yesterday at 09:45:07 am Posted by: ZoŽ
Insert Quote
Quote from: grahame on Yesterday at 09:23:37 am
However fit for purpose the current setup was when it was put into place, it is now very clearly creaking around some of the seams (if not most of them) and it needs an update to the setup - and perhaps to the definition of process - and not just "carry on as you are" into the undefined and perhaps distant future.

I do hope that all the work and analysis on what's needed for the future is heeded, implemented as appropriate and not just parked for "sometime/perhaps/aspiration" as the current service creaks onward untuned for the future.
In the future HS2 will take a significant amount of intercity travel away from the XC core.  I just hope it does not get decided to leave XC as is until then.

I am not so sure. HS2 does not affect the considerable XC traffic on the Bournemouth/Southampton/Basingstoke/Reading/Oxford/Birmingham axis, nor the Plymouth/Exeter/Bristol/Cheltenham/Birmingham one either. It will not serve the Trent Valley, nor Derby or Sheffield.

If it does kill off the viability of XC routes north of Birmingham there will still be demand on the two southern "legs". In such circumstances these might make a logical addition to the GW franchise - there might even be some mid-life 5 coach IETs ready to be cascaded to replace the Voyagers...
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 08:26:44 pm by eightonedee » Logged
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« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2018, 01:46:41 pm »

A cynic like me would suggest that the POSSIBILITY that HS2 MIGHT take some traffic away from the cross country network is an excellent reason to do nothing.
No need to improve capacity on cross country if there is any chance that HS2 might at some far future date possibly relieve a little of the present overcrowding.

With HS2 unlikely to carry passengers until 2036* that means another 18 years of inadequate cross country capacity

*my estimate from simply adding 10 years to the official date of 2026.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2018, 12:01:43 pm »

Why only 10 years? Thameslink 2000 was 18 years late and still hasn't been fully delivered.
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broadgage
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« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2018, 02:03:45 pm »

I was feeling optimistic.
My crystal ball forecasts a delay of at least 10 years, rather than a delay limited to 10 years.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
grahame
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« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2018, 05:00:55 am »

Simply because XC/Arriva were the only entrant....no one else expressed an interest.
Exactly!

Another franchise desperate for a long term strategy that's been kicked into the long grass yet again.

So much work and effort has been put into looking forward at whet the Cross Country network of services needs for the next decade.

However fit for purpose the current setup was when it was put into place, it is now very clearly creaking around some of the seams (if not most of them) and it needs an update to the setup - and perhaps to the definition of process - and not just "carry on as you are" into the undefined and perhaps distant future.

I do hope that all the work and analysis on what's needed for the future is heeded, implemented as appropriate and not just parked for "sometime/perhaps/aspiration" as the current service creaks onward untuned for the future.

Sometimes reliable sources have suggested to me that the direct award to Arriva will run for as long as five years and that neither the government (direct award) nor the German government (Arriva parent) will be keen on buying new rolling stock.  "The best you can hope for ... and it may be worth making a song and dance to try and get them ... is around a dozen extra refurbished HSTs".

Creaking at the seams on capacity at times, would another 12 HSTs (84 passenger carriages) relieve the pressure?  How do readers feel about riding HSTs from Taunton to Bristol and from Cheltenham Spa to Sheffield for the next decade?
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Timmer
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« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2018, 07:38:07 am »

Sometimes reliable sources have suggested to me that the direct award to Arriva will run for as long as five years and that neither the government (direct award) nor the German government (Arriva parent) will be keen on buying new rolling stock.  "The best you can hope for ... and it may be worth making a song and dance to try and get them ... is around a dozen extra refurbished HSTs".

Creaking at the seams on capacity at times, would another 12 HSTs (84 passenger carriages) relieve the pressure?  How do readers feel about riding HSTs from Taunton to Bristol and from Cheltenham Spa to Sheffield for the next decade?
Yes please. I might start using XC again when heading North rather than go via London.

I really donít see any HSTs heading for the scrap heap for a good while yet. Not while there are capacity issues that they could solve until a long term solution is found. In other words until the government sort of themselves out on what to do going forward with rail franchises etc.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2018, 09:19:33 am »

Just the cost of converting the doors & toilets to sort out...
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Charlie (in Gloucester)
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« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2018, 09:56:31 am »

Just the cost of converting the doors & toilets to sort out...

Well as we know arriva spend so much in their franchises. ATW has creaking rolling stock with bad disable access and information for all those years.

CrossCountry has been untouched since Viegin, not even an interior refurb on the voyagers.

Short term I would love HSTs to run around the XC network but long term I think they will go for some 802s when necessary.
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« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2018, 10:30:35 am »

Short term I would love HSTs to run around the XC network but long term I think they will go for some 802s when necessary.

I also don't mind Voyagers formed trains running around the network, as long as many of them are 8, 9 or 10 car ones, which as we know they currently aren't.  If a HST conversion of a dozen or so extra trains means a dozen or so daily voyager diagrams can become formed of two units then that would at least be a start.
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« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2018, 11:09:50 am »

Short term I would love HSTs to run around the XC network but long term I think they will go for some 802s when necessary.
I also don't mind Voyagers formed trains running around the network, as long as many of them are 8, 9 or 10 car ones, which as we know they currently aren't.  If a HST conversion of a dozen or so extra trains means a dozen or so daily voyager diagrams can become formed of two units then that would at least be a start.

The 222 Meridians are Voyagers in another guise, current Voyages could quite possibly be re-formed into 8, 9 or 10 cars with re-configuring the trains software but that would leave the ROSCO owning them with a surfeit of driving cars which I suppose could be paired up to produce a (tongue in cheek) 2-car 153, ideal for the Looe branch in winter and 2 x 2-car 153's on the St Ives branch in summer.
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