Train Graphic
Great Western Passengers' Forum Great Western Coffee Shop - [home] and [about]
Read about the forum [here].
Register and contribute [here] - it's free.
 today - GWRA Auction, Pershore
21/11/2018 - First Bath Bus panel
21/11/2018 - Consultation end - Angel Road
26/11/2018 - TransWilts Board and Members
26/11/2018 - Bath Clean Air consult ends
28/11/2018 - Melksham RUG
Random Image
Train Running @GWR Twitter Acronyms/Abbreviations Station Comparator Rail News GWR co. site Site Style 1 2 3 4 Chat on off
November 17, 2018, 09:11:10 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most liked recent subjects
[193] IETs into passenger service from 16 Oct 2017 and subsequent pe...
[43] Four track for Filton Bank - ongoing discussion
[36] Closure of Old Oak Common (81A) December 2018
[30] Use of senior railcards at peak times
[28] Cornwall signalling upgrade - ongoing discussion, merged topic...
[23] Vale of Berkeley Railway
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2]
  Print  
Author Topic: CrossCountry Franchise Competition "Will Not Proceed"  (Read 1581 times)
CharlieGlos
Transport Scholar
Sr. Member
******
Posts: 258


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2018, 12:24:34 pm »

Is anyone bidding for the GWR franchise though? I see ya being with First for a long time..
Logged

Regular GWR user between Gloucester and Swindon.
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 22486



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2018, 12:31:19 pm »

Is anyone bidding for the GWR franchise though? I see ya being with First for a long time..

There is a direct award from 2019 to 2020, probably another direct award from 2020 to 2022 and it's more likely that not that will extend to 2024, on the basis of "let the people who are there handle things through the rest of the modernisation program rather than looking at bidding for and handing over in the middle".

For bids to run services from 2022 to 2024, it's really too early to know who might bid; for sure a number of organisations may have one eye on the area, but I'm sure none of them will go much further than than in the next six months.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Member of Melksham Rail User Group, on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest and some more things besides
mjones
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 325


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2018, 01:01:50 pm »

Short term I would love HSTs to run around the XC network but long term I think they will go for some 802s when necessary.
I also don't mind Voyagers formed trains running around the network, as long as many of them are 8, 9 or 10 car ones, which as we know they currently aren't.  If a HST conversion of a dozen or so extra trains means a dozen or so daily voyager diagrams can become formed of two units then that would at least be a start.

The 222 Meridians are Voyagers in another guise, current Voyages could quite possibly be re-formed into 8, 9 or 10 cars with re-configuring the trains software but that would leave the ROSCO owning them with a surfeit of driving cars which I suppose could be paired up to produce a (tongue in cheek) 2-car 153, ideal for the Looe branch in winter and 2 x 2-car 153's on the St Ives branch in summer.

Could pairs of driving cars have the cabs removed and replaced with a corridor?
Logged
martyjon
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1237


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2018, 01:40:12 pm »

Could pairs of driving cars have the cabs removed and replaced with a corridor?

Ahh, that would mean spending megabucks and oooos gonna pay !!!!
Logged
eightonedee
Transport Scholar
Sr. Member
******
Posts: 148


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2018, 02:33:07 pm »

Surely what is needed is a better match between capacity and demand?

My experience as a user of the Brimingham/Oxford/Reading/Southampton arm of their network for trips to Birmingham and the North does not seem as bad as the experiences of what I assume are forum members from the south west. XC also runs to Stanstead using (I think) either 170 or 172 diesel units. On the journeys I take, the main "problem" is that trains get crowded at peak times around Birmingham, when understandably Birmingham commuters to surrounding towns on the network use XC trains as part of the capacity available to them in rush hour. I expect that this is partly because some on our side of the network don't realise that XC exists, and assume you have to go north via London, or if they know about XC they decide (once you get to the point where it is quicker to go via London) that they would rather have the speed of crossing London than the convenience of being able to stay on one train.

Presumably on the south west leg, the further west you get (beyond Swindon?) most passengers assume you go north via Birmingham, so most go via XC. My (very) limited experience of XC in the south west is that on the Penzance/Plymouth/Exeter/Bristol axis, the trains are part and parcel of the general Inter City service, so their trains seem as heavily used as GW trains.

Leasing some of the redundant HSTs clearly could help with capacity issues, but I worry about the age of the stock. Will we see "happy 50th birthday HST" specials running while they are still in daily service in eight years' time?  Is it cost effective to upgrade them for five years service? Presumably leasing costs reflect the fact that the original capital cost has long since been defrayed, so does this mean it is? If they are not going to be capable of giving reliable service in their old age then they are not the answer, but if they can boost capacity in the short term, and enable XC to redeploy the remainder of their fleet to increase capacity and even encourage more to use their services, I think most would live with them (as, after all, inter city travelers in Scotland and the south west will have to as well).
Logged
CyclingSid
Transport Scholar
Sr. Member
******
Posts: 225


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2018, 09:43:18 am »

There is a certain lack of flexibility, not limited to XC. It would help if XC spoke to Southampton Ports, when there is a cruise ship leaving the trains tend to be like cattle trucks from Reading to Southampton. Can't be a surprise, port berths are probably booked 6 to  12 months in advance, so an extra set tacked on for those days would be helpful.

Also a nit pick, a couple of years ago going to Oxford in  heatwave the XC was like a furnace. I asked the TM if the air con could be adjusted, No Sir that can only be done at Derby. Was I being wound up, or lack of staff training (not in winding people up).
Logged
IndustryInsider
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6778


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2018, 10:07:37 am »

Also a nit pick, a couple of years ago going to Oxford in  heatwave the XC was like a furnace. I asked the TM if the air con could be adjusted, No Sir that can only be done at Derby. Was I being wound up, or lack of staff training (not in winding people up).

Depends on why it was a furnace I suppose.  A faulty thermostat or other serious fault would need to be done at Central Rivers, a more minor fault such as a tripped MCB could probably be resolved by the TM.  Voyager air-con, whilst not perfect, is fairly reliable in my experience.
Logged

To view my cab run over the new Reading Viaduct as well as a relief line cab ride at Reading just after Platforms 12-15 opened and my 'before and after' video comparison of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/1
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 22486



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2018, 10:11:18 am »

There is a certain lack of flexibility, not limited to XC. It would help if XC spoke to Southampton Ports, when there is a cruise ship leaving the trains tend to be like cattle trucks from Reading to Southampton. Can't be a surprise, port berths are probably booked 6 to  12 months in advance, so an extra set tacked on for those days would be helpful.

Pretty much daily - here's an example I found looking back - a little quieter in the winter (as some ships are elsewhere and others on 28 day Carribean round trips)

Code:
Southampton 1-May-2018 Royal Princess Princess Cruises 05:00 - 17:00
Southampton 2-May-2018 Queen Victoria Cunard Line n/a
Southampton 2-May-2018 P&O Aurora P&O Cruises n/a
Southampton 2-May-2018 Mein Schiff 3 TUI Cruises 07:00 - 20:00
Southampton 4-May-2018 Norwegian Jade NCL 08:00-17:00
Southampton 4-May-2018 P&O Arcadia P&O Cruises n/a
Southampton 4-May-2018 P&O Ventura P&O Cruises n/a
Southampton 5-May-2018 Queen Victoria Cunard Line n/a
Southampton 5-May-2018 ms Zuiderdam HAL 08:00 - 23:00
Southampton 5-May-2018 Sapphire Princess Princess Cruises 07:00-18:00
Southampton 6-May-2018 Braemar Fred. Olsenn n/a
Southampton 6-May-2018 P&O Azura P&O Cruises n/a
Southampton 6-May-2018 Navigator Of The Seas Royal Caribbean 05:30
Southampton 7-May-2018 AIDAperla AIDA Cruises 09:30-21:30
Southampton 7-May-2018 Celebrity Silhouette Celebrity Cruises 06:00-16:00
Southampton 8-May-2018 MSC Meraviglia MSC Cruises 08:00 - 20:00
Southampton 8-May-2018 P&O Oriana P&O Cruises n/a
Southampton 10-May-2018 Queen Elizabeth Cunard Line n/a
Southampton 10-May-2018 Queen Mary 2 Cunard Line n/a
Southampton 11-May-2018 P&O Arcadia P&O Cruises n/a
Southampton 11-May-2018 P&O Britannia P&O Cruises n/a
Southampton 11-May-2018 P&O Ventura P&O Cruises n/a
Southampton 12-May-2018 Queen Victoria Cunard Line n/a
Southampton 12-May-2018 Sapphire Princess Princess Cruises 07:00-18:00
Southampton 13-May-2018 P&O Britannia P&O Cruises n/a
Southampton 13-May-2018 Royal Princess Princess Cruises n/a
Southampton 13-May-2018 Navigator Of The Seas Royal Caribbean 16:30
Southampton 14-May-2018 AIDAperla AIDA Cruises 09:30-21:30
Southampton 14-May-2018 MSC Magnifica MSC Cruises 08:00 - 20:00
Southampton 14-May-2018 Mein Schiff 3 TUI Cruises 07:00 - 20:00
Southampton 15-May-2018 Independence Of The Seas Royal Caribbean 05:30-16:30
Southampton 16-May-2018 Braemar Fred. Olsenn n/a
Southampton 16-May-2018 Norwegian Jade NCL 08:00-17:00
Southampton 16-May-2018 P&O Aurora P&O Cruises n/a
Southampton 17-May-2018 Independence Of The Seas Royal Caribbean 05:30-16:30
Southampton 18-May-2018 Marella Discovery Marella Cruises 06:00-19:00
Southampton 19-May-2018 Celebrity Silhouette Celebrity Cruises 06:00-16:00
Southampton 19-May-2018 P&O Aurora P&O Cruises n/a
Southampton 19-May-2018 P&O Azura P&O Cruises n/a
Southampton 20-May-2018 P&O Britannia P&O Cruises n/a
Southampton 20-May-2018 Independence Of The Seas Royal Caribbean 05:30-16:30
Southampton 21-May-2018 AIDAperla AIDA Cruises 09:30-21:30
Southampton 23-May-2018 Oceania Marina Oceania Cruises 07:00-17:00
Southampton 23-May-2018 P&O Oriana P&O Cruises n/a
Southampton 24-May-2018 Queen Elizabeth Cunard Line n/a
Southampton 24-May-2018 Queen Mary 2 Cunard Line n/a
Southampton 24-May-2018 Braemar Fred. Olsenn n/a
Southampton 24-May-2018 MSC Magnifica MSC Cruises 08:00 - 20:00
Southampton 25-May-2018 Queen Victoria Cunard Line n/a
Southampton 25-May-2018 Norwegian Jade NCL 08:00-17:00
Southampton 25-May-2018 P&O Ventura P&O Cruises n/a
Southampton 25-May-2018 Royal Princess Princess Cruises n/a
Southampton 26-May-2018 Celebrity Silhouette Celebrity Cruises 06:00-16:00
Southampton 26-May-2018 P&O Azura P&O Cruises n/a
Southampton 26-May-2018 Sapphire Princess Princess Cruises 07:00-18:00
Southampton 26-May-2018 Mein Schiff 3 TUI Cruises 07:00 - 20:00
Southampton 27-May-2018 P&O Britannia P&O Cruises n/a
Southampton 27-May-2018 P&O Ventura P&O Cruises n/a
Southampton 27-May-2018 Navigator Of The Seas Royal Caribbean 05:30
Southampton 28-May-2018 AIDAperla AIDA Cruises 09:30-21:30
Southampton 28-May-2018 P&O Arcadia P&O Cruises n/a
Southampton 28-May-2018 Independence Of The Seas Royal Caribbean 05:30-16:30
Southampton 29-May-2018 Braemar Fred. Olsenn n/a
Southampton 31-May-2018 Seven Seas Explorer Regent Seven Seas n/a

The cruise companies work with bus / coach operators to offer transfers from people's home areas to their ship. Perhaps they could work with Cross Country and provide a transfer from the station to the ships and vice versa for specific trains that are strengthened on a daily basis.  Perhaps Cross Country could even offer a railcard-style incentive for cruise passengers to encourage those who don't use trains often to try them for the cruise ... to love the trains and use them more when they get back.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Member of Melksham Rail User Group, on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest and some more things besides
eightonedee
Transport Scholar
Sr. Member
******
Posts: 148


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2018, 10:23:43 am »

Here's a thought - a daily boat train from Southampton to the Midlands made up of upgraded HST stock, or perhaps just putting two Voyagers together to provide adequate seats.

As regards a/c problems, I have not encountered any so far (in contrast to the poor/ineffective system on Turbos), but if the normally reliable systems on SW's Siemens trains fail in summer they soon become like furnaces too. Presumably it's the lack of opening windows for emergency ventilation as on Turbos, which are often used! 
Logged
Lee
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6208

He who laughs last hasn't got all the facts.


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2018, 10:52:41 am »

From RAIL Magazine:

Quote from: RAIL Magazine
Reducing overcrowding will be a key priority for the CrossCountry franchise, according to Baroness Sugg, although she has offered no indication as to how this would be achieved.

She made the claim in a House of Lords Written Reply on October 22, having been asked by Lord Bradshaw (Liberal Democrat) what steps would be taken by Government to reduce overcrowding on the XC network now that bidding for the franchise has been cancelled (RAIL 861).

“Reducing overcrowding will be a key priority as we consider future options for the franchise,” said Sugg.

“The Department will consider rolling stock and train service options that will reduce overcrowding, but it is too early, at present, to say what the detail of that will be.”

It was confirmed in mid-October that the XC franchise currently operated by Arriva could be extended by five years (RAIL 864).

XC uses four-car and five-car Class 220/221s on long-distance services, as well as two-car and three-car Class 170s on inter-regional routes such as Cardiff-Nottingham and Birmingham New Street-Stansted Airport.

When Arriva took over the franchise in November 2007, it introduced five High Speed Trains to help tackle overcrowding on long-distance routes, although usually there are only three per day in traffic.
Logged

Currently muddling along the Guingamp-Carhaix line
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 [2]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants