Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 00:55 29 Mar 2024
- Bus plunges off South Africa bridge, killing 45
- Easter getaways hit by travel disruption
- Where Baltimore bridge investigation goes now
- How do I renew my UK passport and what is the 10-year rule?
- Easter travel warning as millions set to hit roads
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
29th Mar (1913)
Foundation of National Union or Railwaymen (*)

Train RunningShort Run
21:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
Delayed
21:45 Penzance to London Paddington
23:45 London Paddington to Penzance
PollsOpen and recent polls
Closed 2024-03-25 Easter Escape - to where?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 29, 2024, 00:59:07 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[98] West Wiltshire Bus Changes April 2024
[97] would you like your own LIVE train station departure board?
[86] Return of the BRUTE?
[74] Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption el...
[53] If not HS2 to Manchester, how will traffic be carried?
[23] Reversing Beeching - bring heritage and freight lines into the...
 
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
Author Topic: Train travels 57 miles without driver  (Read 4708 times)
patch38
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 653


View Profile
« on: November 05, 2018, 13:35:03 »

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/nov/05/runaway-bhp-train-derailed-no-driver-port-hedland-western-australia

Wow. How on earth was that possible?  Shocked
Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5398



View Profile
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2018, 15:19:07 »

It could have coasted that far on a mainly downhill gradient if the driver had omitted to apply the brake before leaving the cab.
Alternatively it might have been under power. In the UK (United Kingdom)  such an accident would be prevented by the "dead mans handle" but perhaps this train was not so equipped.
Likewise in the UK, AWS (Automatic Warning System) would have stopped the train if it passed a signal at danger, including a signal put back to danger for the purpose of stopping the runaway. However the train might not have been fitted with AWS or equivalent, or there might have been no  signals at danger.
Even experienced railway staff can make mistakes, and are also often surprised by how readily a train can run away on a very slight gradient.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Adelante_CCT
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1314



View Profile
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2018, 18:47:22 »

Have you never seen Unstoppable?
Logged
JayMac
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 18894



View Profile
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2018, 05:09:16 »

The press release from the Australian Transport Safety Board said:

Quote
"At approximately 0440 on 5 November 2018, the driver of a loaded ore train consisting of four locomotives and 268 wagons stopped at the 211 km point. The driver alighted from the locomotive to inspect an issue with a wagon.

While the driver was outside of the locomotive, the train took off. With no one on board, the train travelled for 92 km until about 0505, when the train was deliberately derailed at a set of points operated by the control centre, about 119 km from Port Hedland."

92km in 25 minutes??? That's an average speed of 220 km/h. Or 137mph in old money. Really?

Four locomotives and 268 wagons loaded with iron ore. I don't think it's physically possible for such an unpowered mass to reach that velocity. I think someone's timings are way off.
Logged

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

- Sir Terry Pratchett.
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40690



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2018, 05:28:42 »

92km in 25 minutes??? That's an average speed of 220 km/h. Or 137mph in old money. Really?

Four locomotives and 268 wagons loaded with iron ore. I don't think it's physically possible for such an unpowered mass to reach that velocity. I think someone's timings are way off.

The Guardian's report (original post) suggests 50 minutes not 25:

Quote
BHP has suspended all rail operations in Western Australia after a runaway train laden with iron ore travelled 92km with no one on board before it was deliberately derailed.

The driver of the 2km-long BHP-operated train stepped out of the locomotive early on Monday to inspect an issue with one of its 268 wagons and it took off without him.

It hurtled along the company’s Newman to Port Hedland line in the remote Pilbara region for about 50 minutes until it was deliberately derailed at a set of points near Turner, about 120km south of the port town.

The action was taken by a remote control centre more than 1,500km away in Perth.

I did wonder if the runaway was across two time zones ... but taking at a map, I doubt that.   Nearly 70 m.p.h. average still looks / feels unlikely fast, mind you.   Ah - never believe all you read!
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
JayMac
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 18894



View Profile
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2018, 06:53:57 »

The Guardian's story originally included that quote from the ATSB, which came across the wires from Reuters. I guess someone else also thought the maths were a bit iffy and went back to the ATSB for clarification. The original quote is slowly disappearing from t'web. Its no longer on the ATSB website either.

The new timings are better but, as you say, it's still hard to believe such an average speed being attained. Being average, the train would have to have attained a significantly higher top speed than 70mph. Four locos and 268 loaded wagons don't, from a standing start, go like the proverbial excrement off a manual hole creating implement. Even if the falling gradient was at the top end of what such trains can manage.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2018, 08:02:51 by bignosemac » Logged

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

- Sir Terry Pratchett.
TaplowGreen
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7746



View Profile
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2018, 07:21:12 »

The Guardian's story originally included that quote from the ATSB, which came across the wires from Reuters. I guess someone else also thought the maths were a bit iffy and went back to the ATSB for clarification. The original quote is slowly disappearing from t'web. Its no longer on the ATSB website either.

The new timings are better but, as you say, it's still hard to believe such an average speed being attained. Being average, the train would have to have attained a significantly higher top speed than 70mph. Four locos and 268 loaded wagons don't accelerate that quickly. Even if the falling gradient was at the top end of what such trains can manage.

The Guardian? Getting something wrong? Surely not? Why oh why oh why etc etc etc.......😉
Logged
JayMac
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 18894



View Profile
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2018, 07:57:10 »

The Guardian? Getting something wrong? Surely not? Why oh why oh why etc etc etc.......😉

You've made a smelling pistake there. It's The Grauniad. Tongue

Logged

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

- Sir Terry Pratchett.
Red Squirrel
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5190


There are some who call me... Tim


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2018, 09:55:53 »

The Guardian? Getting something wrong? Surely not? Why oh why oh why etc etc etc.......😉

Yawn.

The Guardian? Getting something wrong? Surely not? Why oh why oh why etc etc etc.......😉

You've made a smelling pistake there. It's The Grauniad. Tongue



So true. And have you seen the state of British Rail sandwiches? All curly at the edges, they are.

Logged

Things take longer to happen than you think they will, and then they happen faster than you thought they could.
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7156


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2018, 10:31:24 »

The Guardian's story originally included that quote from the ATSB, which came across the wires from Reuters. I guess someone else also thought the maths were a bit iffy and went back to the ATSB for clarification. The original quote is slowly disappearing from t'web. Its no longer on the ATSB website either.

The new timings are better but, as you say, it's still hard to believe such an average speed being attained. Being average, the train would have to have attained a significantly higher top speed than 70mph. Four locos and 268 loaded wagons don't, from a standing start, go like the proverbial excrement off a manual hole creating implement. Even if the falling gradient was at the top end of what such trains can manage.

The reports now agree on those figures, more or less. Of course that just means they all used the same source, not that they necessarily checked further. But this is a local report, from The West Australian:
Quote
BHP says it expects it will take a week to clear the track and resume rail operations at its Pilbara iron ore operations after a massive train derailment that has raised serious safety concerns.

The mining giant was forced to deliberately derail a fully-laden 2.6km-long iron ore train early on Monday morning after the driver alighted to inspect a carriage and the train carried on unattended.

The train — with four locomotives and 268 wagons — careered for 92km at average speeds of 110km/h before it was derailed near Turner, about 120km south of Port Hedland.

BHP said it derailed the train from its remote operations centre about 50 minutes later by switching a set of points on the track.

No-one was injured but the company this morning estimated that about 1.5km of track had been damaged in the incident.

“At this stage we anticipate the recovery process to take about one week,” a spokeswoman said.
...

Clearly it was going a lot faster than you'd like to see something that big do - and given that there's little gradient approaching Turner Siding it can't have been just gravity what done it. That report has a picture of the mangled train, which supports the description; I couldn't get it the video to download at all.

Logged
Red Squirrel
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5190


There are some who call me... Tim


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2018, 10:56:32 »

Try the video here: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-06/investigators-visit-runaway-bhp-iron-ore-train-derailment-site/10469802

Blimey, what a mess.
Logged

Things take longer to happen than you think they will, and then they happen faster than you thought they could.
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4256


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2018, 11:11:20 »

Somewhat off topic, but there's an interesting video about RTZ running a driverless train, halfway down that West Australian report.
Logged

Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
Richard Fairhurst
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1204


View Profile Email
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2018, 11:23:47 »

Just as well it wasn't 57 miles without a guard, otherwise the RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) would be calling the Brothers out.

yes yes I know it was an Australian freight train
Logged
Red Squirrel
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5190


There are some who call me... Tim


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2018, 11:31:19 »

yes yes I know it was an Australian freight train

That wouldn't necessarily stop them! Solidarity, sibling!
Logged

Things take longer to happen than you think they will, and then they happen faster than you thought they could.
JayMac
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 18894



View Profile
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2018, 11:45:00 »

Yes, solidarity Reg.

Logged

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

- Sir Terry Pratchett.
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page