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Author Topic: Dawlish closures - November 2018  (Read 20926 times)
marlo36
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« Reply #105 on: November 14, 2018, 05:41:32 »


That maybe okay for someone like yourself living in the far west.

Would you feel the same, if you lived in Torbay, having to use rail replacement buses, or not being able to travel at all because alternative transport isn't available, whenever the sea wall route is disrupted?

Bear in mind just how poorly planned and implemented the rail replacement bus service is currently in Bristol. And that's in a large city, and where the disruption was long term planned for.

Obviously I can't say, because I don't live in Torbay.  However I can't imagine people there would want trains diverted away from the sea wall route when things are running normally and the line is available for traffic (as it is 95% or so of the time). 

Torbay just want a train to get them to Exeter on the quickest route.

The South Devon Highway has made Torbay a commuter town for Exeter with thousands of homes built round the ring road and Edginswell near the planned Devon Metro station (no money to build it). The Devon Metro seems to have been put back, maybe until Exeter Depot (under construction) has been enlarged. No 158's yet but more 150/2's seem to have arrived. The train is slower than the car but difficult parking in Exeter makes the train viable.

Torbay is a misundrstood area. It is not full of retirees. It has the largest primary school in Devon at Oldway (700 pupils); Boys Grammar School, Girls Grammar school, and a mixed Grammar school. The continually expanding South Devon college with branches in Newton Abbot and Kingswear and links to Plymouth University. This has made the area attractive to families.


There are high tech companies (old employees of Nortel going it alone). The college, only half the site built, is building a new high tech centre as is the council constructing a high tech building (known as EPIC)  with up to 16 laboraties for small companies.

On the Nortel site is a Range store and a M&S food hall, and three other units,  under construction with free car parking and 300 hundred homes earmarked on the old Nortel car parks. Nortel used to employee 5000 people and when it closed it killed Paignton.

Unfortunately in the town centres the luddites have the upper hand and they are very run down.





In actual fact, Oldway Prmary School holds 624 ( capacity) and there are further schools apart from the Grammer Schools mentioned as in Paignton Lower School ( Borough Road ), Paignton Upper School ( Waterleat Road).These were classed as schools when I attended and not colleges etc.It was a big blow when Nortel closed with the loss of 5000 jobs, but there other sites that have closed down as well ( St.Ivel Factory in Yalberton Road opposite Sainsburys) with a loss of 400 jobs including mine and is now operated by Dainton Storage Hire.The town centre is nearly like a "ghost town" with shops closing down and especially with Crossways.
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martyjon
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« Reply #106 on: November 14, 2018, 06:57:10 »

In actual fact, Oldway Prmary School holds 624 ( capacity) and there are further schools apart from the Grammer Schools mentioned as in Paignton Lower School ( Borough Road ), Paignton Upper School ( Waterleat Road).These were classed as schools when I attended and not colleges etc.It was a big blow when Nortel closed with the loss of 5000 jobs, but there other sites that have closed down as well ( St.Ivel Factory in Yalberton Road opposite Sainsburys) with a loss of 400 jobs including mine and is now operated by Dainton Storage Hire.The town centre is nearly like a "ghost town" with shops closing down and especially with Crossways.


Thank you, marlo36, for your first hand description of Paignton today, it seems to me that the town is on life support with that support being the summer months trade. With the job losses you've quoted, what is the unemployment rate in the area ? With the South Devon Highway as you quoted, do that many residents of the area commute to Exeter or indeed the opposite way to Plymouth although the latter has its problems too.

Plenty of job vacancies in Bristol for bus drivers but hampered by a lack of affordable housing for families which exacerbates the problem though.
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« Reply #107 on: November 14, 2018, 17:41:06 »

So, with Torbay struggling out of season, the last thing it needs is a fair weather railway, with no trains to Exeter and beyond during disruption.

That's what it'll have if the only diversionary route built is the former LSWR (London South Western Railway).
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« Reply #108 on: November 14, 2018, 18:06:35 »

Interestingly page 199 of Network Rail's Western Route Study identifies a need for partial 4 tracking between Exeter and Newton Abbott by 2043, after summarising the resilience study it fails to conclude how best to provide the 4 tracking.
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« Reply #109 on: November 14, 2018, 18:06:48 »

The Orange Army did a great job back in 2014; if only the powers-that-be could demonstrate the same professionalism and dedication to the protection of the south west rail link.

i) re-establish the Okehampton-Exeter service.
ii) re-connect the Tavistock to Plymouth.
iii) re-connect Tavistock to Okehampton, thereby establishing a 'new' rail corridor for parts of north & east Cornwall and west Devon, a Devon orbital railway and a northern diversionary route all in one.  
iv) Sort out how best to re-route/re-engineer the south coast line between Exeter & Newton Abbot.

 
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REVUpminster
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« Reply #110 on: November 14, 2018, 18:20:38 »


That maybe okay for someone like yourself living in the far west.

Would you feel the same, if you lived in Torbay, having to use rail replacement buses, or not being able to travel at all because alternative transport isn't available, whenever the sea wall route is disrupted?

Bear in mind just how poorly planned and implemented the rail replacement bus service is currently in Bristol. And that's in a large city, and where the disruption was long term planned for.

Obviously I can't say, because I don't live in Torbay.  However I can't imagine people there would want trains diverted away from the sea wall route when things are running normally and the line is available for traffic (as it is 95% or so of the time). 

Torbay just want a train to get them to Exeter on the quickest route.

The South Devon Highway has made Torbay a commuter town for Exeter with thousands of homes built round the ring road and Edginswell near the planned Devon Metro station (no money to build it). The Devon Metro seems to have been put back, maybe until Exeter Depot (under construction) has been enlarged. No 158's yet but more 150/2's seem to have arrived. The train is slower than the car but difficult parking in Exeter makes the train viable.

Torbay is a misundrstood area. It is not full of retirees. It has the largest primary school in Devon at Oldway (700 pupils); Boys Grammar School, Girls Grammar school, and a mixed Grammar school. The continually expanding South Devon college with branches in Newton Abbot and Kingswear and links to Plymouth University. This has made the area attractive to families.


There are high tech companies (old employees of Nortel going it alone). The college, only half the site built, is building a new high tech centre as is the council constructing a high tech building (known as EPIC)  with up to 16 laboraties for small companies.

On the Nortel site is a Range store and a M&S food hall, and three other units,  under construction with free car parking and 300 hundred homes earmarked on the old Nortel car parks. Nortel used to employee 5000 people and when it closed it killed Paignton.

Unfortunately in the town centres the luddites have the upper hand and they are very run down.





In actual fact, Oldway Prmary School holds 624 ( capacity) and there are further schools apart from the Grammer Schools mentioned as in Paignton Lower School ( Borough Road ), Paignton Upper School ( Waterleat Road).These were classed as schools when I attended and not colleges etc.It was a big blow when Nortel closed with the loss of 5000 jobs, but there other sites that have closed down as well ( St.Ivel Factory in Yalberton Road opposite Sainsburys) with a loss of 400 jobs including mine and is now operated by Dainton Storage Hire.The town centre is nearly like a "ghost town" with shops closing down and especially with Crossways.


Re Oldway capacity. There are 7 years of three classes. Averaging up to 90 pupils in each year. There is also 3 classes in the reception year and 1 nursery class. The total figure is nearer 700. Twice a year at Easter and Harvest the school troops down to Christ Church (about 100 yards) for a whole school service.

There are plenty of other primary schools; White Rock has doubled in size. The jewels in the crown are the grammar schools, maybe also Cuthbert Mayne. The South Devon College is not the same as the other secondary schools that like to add college to their name. It is becoming a university in all but name.


This week the Park Hotel has received planning permission to replace the 47 bed hotel with a modern 3* 161 bedroom hotel with spa, gym, and restaurant. This will be a game changer for the seafront as other hotels will have to adapt (rebuild) or close.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2018, 18:25:39 by REVUpminster » Logged
Umberleigh
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« Reply #111 on: November 15, 2018, 19:36:21 »

Dartmoor brings in 2,400,000 visitors a year, who total 31,000,000 visitor days on the moor and spend £111,000,000 (2016 figures)

Bar a few summer Sundays, at present the only railway station from which it is possible to leave the train and walk onto the moor is Ivybridge, boasting a skeleton service operated by mostly one or two coach stopping trains.

That a railway line is in situ to Okehampton and up to Meldon just makes this all the more farcical. I applaud the efforts of all those trying to get passenger trains back to Okehampton, but it truly is a poor state of affairs.

Rather than fighting over which route should get funding, left us unite and push for the funding both the GWR (Great Western Railway) and SR(resolve) routes deserve. After all, we have seen billions spent on Crossrail and HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)), whilst solutions to both Dawlish and Okehampton would be small change in comparison.

In fact, I can’t help but think us rail transport supporters have been lulled into a game of divide and conquer (or rather inaction) by this game of either/or.

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PhilWakely
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« Reply #112 on: November 15, 2018, 19:56:43 »

From Devon Live 15/11/18
(apologies for the click bait!)
Quote
Major announcement about the future of the Dawlish rail line made by Network Rail to councillors

Network Rail has a programme of improvements to protect the line between Exeter and Newton Abbot to improve resilience over the next century

The re-routing of the Dawlish rail line closer to the sea will NOT see a popular beach lost to the public.

Network Rail has a programme of improvements to protect the line between Exeter and Newton Abbot to improve resilience over the next century.

The causeway option would see the line rebuild from the tunnel at Smugglers’ Lane in Holcombe, out on to the beach past Spray Point, and then would curve back in land towards Teignmouth.

The option could cost up to £500million but no funding has yet been pledged for the work or a timeframe put in place.

Holcombe Beach (Image: Daniel Clark)

But at Thursday morning’s Teignbridge Locality Committee meeting, David Lovell, Network Rail Programme Manager for the Western and Wales region revealed that although the line is still set to be realigned, it won’t move as far away from the cliffs and across the beach as initially planned.

Mr Lovell said: “Our designer is currently development the track alignment to reduce reclamation and are continuing to work up options based on extensive investigations. We are proposing a design that will be similar to a rockfall shelter and will reduce the impact on the beach. The issue is that we have is that we cannot physically present what it will look like at the moment.”

Asked by Cllr Sylvia Russell if that meant Network Rail would no longer be realigning the line, he replied: “It will still go out seaward, but it won’t go out as far as we thought in 2016 for a period of the line. A lot of the beach at Holcombe will remain, but I cannot present that today as to how it will look like, but that is where we are now.”

A train in Dawlish today

He added the walkway would be retained and the sea wall would have a wave return to deflect energy away from the cliffs and the railway line.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
What are the technical proposals for the Dawlish rail line?
1. The line between Holcombe and Teignmouth will be relocated into the sea away from crumbling cliffs. Anne-Marie Morris explains how it needs to be ‘more robust.’
2. The continued strengthening of the sea wall at Dawlish near train station, following the high-profile collapse in February 2014.
3. Works to protect the tunnels by installing ‘avalanche shelters’ to protect the tracks from falling rocks.
4. A ‘helpdesk’ office to open to provide locals and visitors with information about the projects

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The news was welcomed by councillors on the committee, who said the residents of Holcombe would be happy.


Campaigners want to save Holcombe Beach (Image: Daniel Clark)

Mr Lovell also told councillors that early in 2019, the final design of the new seawall planned for Marine Parade in Dawlish would be presented.

But he said that the wall will be 7.5m tall with a wave return to deflect the energy of the waves and to stop them going over the railway, that the walkway will be 4m wide when it is currently 3.1m wide, and there will be a barrier between the pedestrians and the edge of the to stop people falling off the wall.

He added: “Once we build a better sea wall, the overtopping of the sea water won’t happen. We are putting a design in place that will be there for 100 years, accounts for sea level rise, and won’t get the spray overtopping the railway line.”

He added that Network Rail were also coming up with design solutions to improve resilience for the area around Dawlish station. Mr Lovel said: “It would be an own goal to improve the Marine Parade sea wall only for the railway to be still closed as there is flooding at Dawlish station.”

However Cllr Rosalind Prowse questioned whether anything had actually changed since the line was washed away in the storms in 2014.


A train travels over the Dawlish sea wall (Image: Daniel Clark)

She said: “Sad to say I don’t think we’ve moved on a great deal since then and I still have the same concerns as did in 2014, but the weather has got worse and already with the unusually early storm the trains have had to stop running twice.

“I think that remedial are a waste of money and we should be doing the major works to get the line secured. Until the money is forthcoming, we could still be talking about it in four years’ time, but we all know that the money will appear if they line gets washed away.”

Mr Lovell said that the funding will come from central government as Network Rail don’t have the pot of money for it, and that they been advised the Dawlish rail line is Secretary of State for Transport Chris Grayling’s number one priority. He added: “I am convinced that this will happen and me and my team doing all we can to progress the schemes as quickly as we can, but they do take a long time.”

Cllr Prowse however said: “But a big storm doesn’t take a long time, it takes just a few hours.”
And Cllr Jackie Hook asked if Network Rail could guarantee there won’t be a catastrophic cliff fall.


A CrossCountry Voyager train passes the sea front at Dawlish

Mr Lovell said: “I cannot. In 2014, we had no advance warning it would happen. We are monitoring the cliffs and looking for any movement, and if we identified an issue, we would cliff the line, but we cannot guarantee the cliffs won’t fail. We are doing all we can to monitor and make things safe.”

The next phase of work to protect the sea wall at Dawlish has begun, Mr Lovel told councillors.
Four breakwaters at Boat Cove, Coastguards Point, Colonnade Underpass and Langstone Rock are being repaired. The work is set to take six months and will be carried out by world leaders in coastal, tunnel, cliff and railway engineering from Network Rail and BAM Nuttall.

Investigations are also continuing into whether loose material from the clifftop above Parsons Tunnel at Holcombe can be removed to stabilise the cliff and reduce the risk of landslips.
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grahame
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« Reply #113 on: November 22, 2018, 20:22:56 »

And again - from the Plymouth Herald

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Trains are expected to be cancelled or delayed today because of forecast high tides at Dawlish.

National Rail say there will be disruption to CrossCountry services between Exeter St Davids and Paignton/Plymouth from 2pm until the end of the day.

Customers holding a valid CrossCountry ticket may use Great Western Railway services on any reasonable route from 2pm.
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« Reply #114 on: November 23, 2018, 17:40:01 »

I had Ken Bruce’s R 2 show on in the background this morning and I’m certain the traffic lady (new Northern Irish one) said on two different occasions that the line between Totnes and [didn’t quite catch name] was closed due to flooding. So had a look at National Rail web site and no such news of floods and/or closures?

Definitely heard Totnes, so did anyone else hear this or can shed some light on this? Given that Ken Bruse pulls in about 8 million listeners (and of the type who use railways) its not good if it didn’t actually happen, especially after the bad press Dawlish gets
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« Reply #115 on: November 23, 2018, 18:58:38 »

A report of flowing water over the sleepers on the westbound track at Rattery. Track opened after inspection. Delay to the 0635 London - Penzance about 40 late, thence missed most station stops in Cornwall so return trip was only 5 mins late
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« Reply #116 on: November 23, 2018, 19:06:07 »

Thanks for that. Was definitely given the impression the line was closed. So shoddy broadcasting.
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PhilWakely
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« Reply #117 on: November 23, 2018, 19:43:14 »

And again - from the Plymouth Herald

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Trains are expected to be cancelled or delayed today because of forecast high tides at Dawlish.

National Rail say there will be disruption to CrossCountry services between Exeter St Davids and Paignton/Plymouth from 2pm until the end of the day.

Customers holding a valid CrossCountry ticket may use Great Western Railway services on any reasonable route from 2pm.

"Via any reasonable route between Exeter St Davids and Paignton/Plymouth" Now, I wonder how many reasonable routes operated by GWR (Great Western Railway) are available?  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #118 on: November 23, 2018, 19:48:39 »

"Via any reasonable route between Exeter St Davids and Paignton/Plymouth" Now, I wonder how many reasonable routes are available?  Roll Eyes

There are two reasonable routes from Exeter to Plymouth - via Dawlish and via Okehampton.  Services are currently suspended on that second, very reasonable, route.
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« Reply #119 on: November 28, 2018, 07:58:18 »

High onshore winds with high tide, and high winds generally, are causing disruption across the west today, 28th November 2018.

CrossCountry Voyagers aren't travelling between Exeter and Newton Abbot between 0830-1130. GWR (Great Western Railway) ticket acceptance in place.

There is also a general 50mph Emergency Speed Restriction between Cogload Junction and Penzance in force between 0900-1800.
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