Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
End of through trains
Bristol to Waterloo?

 
Please sign our petition
(more information)
 
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 03:15 16 Oct 2021
- Covid: US to lift travel ban for fully jabbed on 8 November
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 today - Coffee Shop AGM - Didcot
tomorrow - Wiltshire Climate Consultation
20/10/21 - SWR / Trowbridge meeting
27/10/21 - Railfuture on Cirencester
Random Image
Train RunningCancelled
08:47 Plymouth to Penzance
11:15 Penzance to Plymouth
PollsThere are no open or recent polls
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
October 16, 2021, 03:25:01 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[117] 648Y
[62] Staff reductions - London Area
[53] South Western Railways Waterloo - Bristol services axed
[44] Porkway Partway
[44] Where were PhilWakely and bignosemac yesterday, 13th October 2...
[18] Former BR WR Chief Mechanical & Electrical Engineer - RIP
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
Author Topic: Gloucester Area Resignalling CP6  (Read 5105 times)
CMRail
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 398


View Profile
« on: November 13, 2018, 09:39:28 pm »

Was becoming off topic in the FTFB thread so moved here.

I was also told that Gloucester would go to West Midlands signalling centre rather than Didcot.

Apparently they considered bidirectional signalling at Cheltenham but decided against. Apparently at Gloucester platform 1 is not long enough for the nine cars even, but it is possible to move signals back on platform 2 and 1.

I would like to see the reverse time improvements because it promotes more trains to call at Gloucester. I have also noticed decreased use of Platform 1 recently with only Great Malverns using the platform. Use of platform 3 more would be great but rail travel is more focused towards Cheltenham now. It’s used under 8 times a day which is unfortunate.
Logged

We should be aiming towards a country where no matter where you are you can get around all day with an easy to use, affordable and modern transport system.
SandTEngineer
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3485


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2018, 11:24:44 am »

I was also told that Gloucester would go to West Midlands signalling centre rather than Didcot.

I did post in the F4T topic that there are some big NR» (Network Rail - home page) boundary changes being planned that will put Gloucester and Cheltenham into the Midlands Territory.  TVSC» (Thames Valley Signalling Centre - about) is full and cannot accomodate any more territory without major building works (hence the talked about plan for Exeter Panel to become a ROC (Rail Operating Centre - a centralised location for railway signalling and train control operations for a specific route or region)). I also think that NR are begining to realise that putting 'all your eggs in one basket' is asking for trouble if something serious was to happen.

Anyway, we need to wait and see once the CP6 (Control Period 6 - The five year period between 2019 and 2024) plans are firmed up.
Logged
Dispatch Box
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 433


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2018, 11:12:51 pm »

I Think the best and cheapest way to resignal Gloucester would be to convert the panel box into a ROC (Rail Operating Centre - a centralised location for railway signalling and train control operations for a specific route or region) or small I.E.C.C. This would be more practical as the Horton Road crossing poses safety issues, with people as I was told by platform staff, jumping over barriers. So it needs a person high up in a building to oversee it. The work station in there could contain only 4 monitors and could be placed across the back wall. Then the panel would be ripped out and a nice desk housing all of the monitors for the crossings. I also can see that there is a large relay room underneath it which could house most of the control boxes and probably save on REB Cabinets.
Logged
ellendune
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4014


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2018, 11:21:59 pm »

I Think the best and cheapest way to resignal Gloucester would be to convert the panel box into a ROC (Rail Operating Centre - a centralised location for railway signalling and train control operations for a specific route or region) or small I.E.C.C. This would be more practical as the Horton Road crossing poses safety issues, with people as I was told by platform staff, jumping over barriers. So it needs a person high up in a building to oversee it.

Really not sure a person up in the box would make much difference!

The work station in there could contain only 4 monitors and could be placed across the back wall. Then the panel would be ripped out and a nice desk housing all of the monitors for the crossings. I also can see that there is a large relay room underneath it which could house most of the control boxes and probably save on REB Cabinets.

But then all the old stuff would have to be ripped out before the new stuff can be installed.  That would be a very long blockade!
Logged
Dispatch Box
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 433


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2018, 11:28:19 pm »

Was becoming off topic in the FTFB thread so moved here.

I was also told that Gloucester would go to West Midlands signalling centre rather than Didcot.

Apparently they considered bidirectional signalling at Cheltenham but decided against. Apparently at Gloucester platform 1 is not long enough for the nine cars even, but it is possible to move signals back on platform 2 and 1.

I would like to see the reverse time improvements because it promotes more trains to call at Gloucester. I have also noticed decreased use of Platform 1 recently with only Great Malverns using the platform. Use of platform 3 more would be great but rail travel is more focused towards Cheltenham now. It’s used under 8 times a day which is unfortunate.


Platform 1, is used through the week but does not seem to be used on Saturdays.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2018, 12:08:21 pm by Dispatch Box » Logged
Dispatch Box
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 433


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2018, 12:10:47 pm »

I was also told that Gloucester would go to West Midlands signalling centre rather than Didcot.

I did post in the F4T topic that there are some big NR» (Network Rail - home page) boundary changes being planned that will put Gloucester and Cheltenham into the Midlands Territory.  TVSC» (Thames Valley Signalling Centre - about) is full and cannot accomodate any more territory without major building works (hence the talked about plan for Exeter Panel to become a ROC (Rail Operating Centre - a centralised location for railway signalling and train control operations for a specific route or region)). I also think that NR are begining to realise that putting 'all your eggs in one basket' is asking for trouble if something serious was to happen.

Anyway, we need to wait and see once the CP6 (Control Period 6 - The five year period between 2019 and 2024) plans are firmed up.


Are you thinking then NR are wishing they had not built large signalling centres.
Logged
SandTEngineer
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3485


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2018, 12:20:29 pm »

I was also told that Gloucester would go to West Midlands signalling centre rather than Didcot.

I did post in the F4T topic that there are some big NR» (Network Rail - home page) boundary changes being planned that will put Gloucester and Cheltenham into the Midlands Territory.  TVSC» (Thames Valley Signalling Centre - about) is full and cannot accomodate any more territory without major building works (hence the talked about plan for Exeter Panel to become a ROC (Rail Operating Centre - a centralised location for railway signalling and train control operations for a specific route or region)). I also think that NR are begining to realise that putting 'all your eggs in one basket' is asking for trouble if something serious was to happen.

Anyway, we need to wait and see once the CP6 (Control Period 6 - The five year period between 2019 and 2024) plans are firmed up.


Are you thinking then NR are wishing they had not built large signalling centres.

Yes.
Logged
Dispatch Box
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 433


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2018, 01:01:35 pm »

I was also told that Gloucester would go to West Midlands signalling centre rather than Didcot.

I did post in the F4T topic that there are some big NR» (Network Rail - home page) boundary changes being planned that will put Gloucester and Cheltenham into the Midlands Territory.  TVSC» (Thames Valley Signalling Centre - about) is full and cannot accomodate any more territory without major building works (hence the talked about plan for Exeter Panel to become a ROC (Rail Operating Centre - a centralised location for railway signalling and train control operations for a specific route or region)). I also think that NR are begining to realise that putting 'all your eggs in one basket' is asking for trouble if something serious was to happen.

Anyway, we need to wait and see once the CP6 (Control Period 6 - The five year period between 2019 and 2024) plans are firmed up.


Are you thinking then NR are wishing they had not built large signalling centres.

Yes.

Why, They are reliable and seem to work, the one TVSC As featured on Tv was a busy one. I suppose the signallers get fed when news comes from route control that someone is trying to comit suiside or trespassers.
Logged
Zoe
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 738


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2018, 03:44:57 pm »

According to the Strategic Plan published earlier this year, the CP6 (Control Period 6 - The five year period between 2019 and 2024) resignalling schemes for Worcester, Gloucester and Cornwall have been deferred until CP7/8.

See page 65 of this document:  https://cdn.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Western-Route-Strategic-Plan.pdf
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 02:18:47 am by Zoë » Logged
Trowres
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 596


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2018, 06:58:42 pm »

TVSC» (Thames Valley Signalling Centre - about) is full and cannot accomodate any more territory without major building works (hence the talked about plan for Exeter Panel to become a ROC (Rail Operating Centre - a centralised location for railway signalling and train control operations for a specific route or region)).

If the original plan was to have the whole Western route covered by TVSC, how come it isn't large enough?
Logged

Without action there is no hope.
Dispatch Box
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 433


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2018, 07:39:21 pm »

TVSC» (Thames Valley Signalling Centre - about) is full and cannot accomodate any more territory without major building works (hence the talked about plan for Exeter Panel to become a ROC (Rail Operating Centre - a centralised location for railway signalling and train control operations for a specific route or region)).

If the original plan was to have the whole Western route covered by TVSC, how come it isn't large enough?

Sounds like bad planning.
Logged
ellendune
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4014


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2018, 09:07:53 pm »

TVSC» (Thames Valley Signalling Centre - about) is full and cannot accomodate any more territory without major building works (hence the talked about plan for Exeter Panel to become a ROC (Rail Operating Centre - a centralised location for railway signalling and train control operations for a specific route or region)).

If the original plan was to have the whole Western route covered by TVSC, how come it isn't large enough?

Sounds like bad planning.

I don't think it was the original plan to have all the Western Route controlled from there - by which I mean the plan when it was built - that is why it is only called the Thames Valley Signalling Centre.  Then the plan changed and I thought they were planning to extend the building - always a tricky thing when it is a live installation.  So I guess they have now realised that and have scaled back their aspirations to match the capacity of the building. 
Logged
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5837


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2018, 11:52:48 pm »

I don't think it was the original plan to have all the Western Route controlled from there - by which I mean the plan when it was built - that is why it is only called the Thames Valley Signalling Centre.  Then the plan changed and I thought they were planning to extend the building - always a tricky thing when it is a live installation.  So I guess they have now realised that and have scaled back their aspirations to match the capacity of the building. 

I think there's a difference between what was initially planned - as in going to be done within the foreseeable and plannable future - and what was always intended as the final result. There are maps with the NR» (Network Rail - home page) routes  (their management regions, one of which is "Western"), identified one to one with ROCs (Rail Operating Centre - a centralised location for railway signalling and train control operations for a specific route or region) (excepting some historical anomalies). But the Western Route Plan of 2013 said:
Quote
Signalling migration synopsis
Thames Valley Signalling Centre (TVSC» (Thames Valley Signalling Centre - about)) was commissioned in December 2010 as part of the Reading area enhancement programme. The Route has developed a migration plan for the current Great Western Mainline Power Signal Boxes which sees control of the entire line between Paddington and Bristol, Oxford and Newbury move to TVSC by 2015.

That's signalling, but an ROC also holds the ECR (electric power), NR route, and TOC (Train Operating Company) operations control functions. I suspect that these have ended up employing more people than was foreseen. And of course that "planned" may have assumed that if more space was needed 30 years later than some could be built.

And has someone wearing a "resilience" hat come along to NR's planners of control strategy and asked what the backup arrangements are - e.g. if a major fire puts an ROC out of action for months, how and to where will control of all functions be transferred to be operational the next day? That must be easier to do with more, smaller, control units, though obviously needs some spare capacity somewhere.
Logged
martyjon
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1941


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2018, 05:15:29 am »

And has someone wearing a "resilience" hat come along to NR» (Network Rail - home page)'s planners of control strategy and asked what the backup arrangements are - e.g. if a major fire puts an ROC (Rail Operating Centre - a centralised location for railway signalling and train control operations for a specific route or region) out of action for months, how and to where will control of all functions be transferred to be operational the next day? That must be easier to do with more, smaller, control units, though obviously needs some spare capacity somewhere.


I remember a time when I was last at Weston-Super-Mare station, the platform staff hidey hole had a 'slave panel' in it at the entrance to said hidey hole which was in full view of the travelling public although not many of the travelling public ventured so far down the up platform to notice it, I wonder if its still there.
Logged
bobm
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 8847



View Profile
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2018, 07:13:32 am »

I understand it has been removed, as has a similar one at Newbury.

The latter is now in the care of the Swindon Panel Preservation Society.
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page