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Author Topic: Derogations - allowing uncompliant stock still to be used in 2020  (Read 3336 times)
IndustryInsider
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« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2019, 09:06:11 am »

They most certainly should.  Especially in the ongoing debacle on the Midland Main Line.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2019, 03:00:14 pm »

  • No more than 4 seats across Purposely excluded from the KTR due as a business decision, however the study into seat comfort included minimum seat widths and it was recommended that the findings from that be incorporated in a later edition of the KTR. That might (depending on what the minimum seat width is) be a death-sentance for 2+3 seating, but only if the standard is made mandatory

Is there also a minimum gangway width? I presume that would be a safety factor so there would be; but I don't know. So it might be possible to incorporate 2+3 seating by reducing gangway width further? Though I hope not.
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grahame
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« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2020, 02:13:24 pm »

Derogation letter and details published by the DfT at 3p.m. on 31st December dated, I note, 3 weeks earlier to GWR

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/855277/gwr-class-143-2020-dispensation-letter-timed-request.pdf (class 143)

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/855467/gwr-short-form-hsts-2020-dispensation-letter.pdf   (this one dated earlier - "Castles")

I have links for 19 other such letters all published at the same time by the DfT; as far as I can see none of the others are for stock in use in the GWR franchise or likely to be passing through, but not all are sorted by TOC so there could be some of 'our' 150s in there listed under their leasing company.   For TfW see https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/transport-for-wales-rail-service-accessibility-compliance-dispensation - long list!
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Adrian
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« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2020, 10:08:19 pm »


And from TfW JourneyCheck:
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Please be aware that our Locomotive-Hauled Coach Engine and four coaches that operate from Holyhead to Cardiff and Manchester, do not feature fully accessible facilities, including toilets.

A PRM-modified class 67 locomotive - now, that's an interesting concept.
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eightonedee
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« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2020, 12:58:10 pm »

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A PRM-modified class 67 locomotive - now, that's an interesting concept.

Have Stannah developed a mini stairlift to help disabled drivers get down from the cab if the train does not come to a halt in a station?

I'll look out for ones with blue badges.........
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grahame
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« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2020, 06:02:33 am »

A long article from Railway Technology

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Sewage on the train tracks: will the rail industry clean up after itself?

Quote
ScotRail originally stopped dumping sewage onto tracks in 2017. However, it was forced to revert to this practice again in 2018 as a temporary measure due to delays in receiving 26 renovated high-speed InterCity trains. This meant the operator had to hire much older models that do not have waste storage tanks.

Just eight of the 26 refurbished trains have been delivered to date, meaning that some of the older models will serve seven Scottish cities into next year and continue emptying toilet waste onto tracks. According to ScotRail, the refurbishment programme is now being accelerated.

“We’re working with suppliers to ensure the refurbishment of our fleet of high-speed InterCity trains is completed as soon as possible,” says a ScotRail spokesperson.

Wabtec Rail is performing the upgrades to 17 ScotRail carriages. According to Jodi Savage, Wabtec Rail contract manager for vehicles, the design of some older trains presents challenges for retrofitting.

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East Midlands Railway is another train operator that has requested permission to carry on flushing sewage onto tracks, which may fully not end until 2023. Dumping of effluent will continue on some fast services between St Pancras in London and other cities such as Sheffield and Nottingham.

A spokesperson for the company said that most of its trains do have controlled emissions toilets, with the majority of its regional fleet having been retrofitted with storage tanks in the past 18 months.

“We completely support the drive by Network Rail to remove all trains without controlled emissions toilets by the end of 2023 and are already working towards having all our trains fitted by the end of 2020,” the East Midlands Railway spokesperson said.

“This work is part of our £600m investment plan to completely replace our entire train fleet with either brand new or fully refurbished trains across our network.”

The article goes on to look at why sewage dumping continues - why the planned phasing out of the practise by the end of 2019 did not happen.  An interesting read ... no great surprise to me. 

Is the above list of companies still "dumping" compete?  I wonder in particular if the remaining pacers (Northern, Transport for Wales, GWR) and heritage trains operators' stock is compliant?
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SandTEngineer
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« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2020, 08:47:19 am »

I wasn't aware there was an official deadline to achieve this unlike PRM modifications.  Its a good thing though, and I speak as one who has been sprayed countless times whilst working on the track during a 50-year career  Tongue
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2020, 09:23:53 am »

I wasn't aware there was an official deadline to achieve this unlike PRM modifications.  Its a good thing though, and I speak as one who has been sprayed countless times whilst working on the track during a 50-year career  Tongue

Erm I'll just stand over here then if that's OK. No offence!
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broadgage
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« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2020, 02:33:14 am »

AFAIK there is no requirement to remove dump toilets from heritage trains that are used ONLY on heritage lines.
The health risks are probably less, since the low speed results in true "dumping" rather than spraying over track workers, external door handles, and persons on platforms.

I have previously suggested that a batch of new "toilet coaches" could be built for heritage railways, 4 retention toilets per coach, two at each end. A standard design differing only in livery. Not new "from the ground up" but re-built on existing underframes. One such coach in the middle of the train would suffice on most heritage lines.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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