Routeing

[whole diary]

[Clan Line]

If I buy an Advance Single from Warminster to Worcester for the 0630 service, I am routed via Westbury and Reading – quite literally round the other two sides of a triangle. There will be something printed on the ticket to tie me to that route.

If I decide to come back on the 1726 from Worcester I am routed via Oxford, Didcot & Bath Spa. A slightly different triangle.

If I have, say, an Anytime (Day) Return, can I still travel via these exotic places at any other time of the day ? even though there are 6 direct services per day from Warminster to Worcester.

I ask this question: 1. Because I might go to Worcester and am in no hurry. 2. Because I had an almost identical discussion with a lady (GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) Staff) on Gloucester station a few weeks back – she either didn’t understand the question or didn’t know the answer.

I think my question boils down to:- is a (peculiar?) route, shown on one particular journey ticket/website itinerary, valid on all tickets on that route - and in both directions ?

[Oxonhutch]

I would think that if the ticket is not an Advanced where a particular train is specified, then if you see a routing suggested in the ticketing engine, then it is a permitted route for that ticket at any time of day, in either direction.  I would though print out screen shots to answer any negative enquiries.

[JayMac]

For a flexible ticket between Warminster and Worcester, be that Anytime (Day), or Off Peak you are bound by the routeing printed on the ticket.

The possible routeings for Warminster to Worcester Stations are 'Any Permitted' or 'Not via Birmingham'.

That doesn't really help determine exactly which routes you can take so one needs to consult the Routeing Guide to determine valid routes.

First off, the shortest route is always valid. That's Warminster - Westbury - Bristol TM^‡(resolve) - Gloucester and/or Cheltenham - Worcester.

And, of course, a direct train is always valid.

Next, any mapped route in the Routeing Guide is also valid. Provided it doesn't override a routeing restriction printed on the ticket (eg. 'Not via Birmingham'), provided there is no double-back, and provided it passes the 'fare-check rule'. The 'fare check rule' applies to stations that aren't Routeing Points in the Routeing Guide in their own right. Stations that aren't Routeing Points in their own right are instead associated with one or more Routeing Points. For Warminster its Routeing Point stations are Westbury and Salisbury. To use these Routeing Points for a particular journey the 'fare-check rule' comes into play. That says that a Routeing Point is valid if the fare from the origin station (Warminster) to destination (Worcester Stations) is not less than the fare from the Routeing Point (Salisbury/Westbury) to destination. Worcester Stations is a Routeing Point in its own right, so no fare check is required for the destination.

Salisbury doesn't pass the 'fare-check rule' for most fares, but this is complicated by Salisbury not having an 'Any Permitted' routeing for fares to Worcester Stations. My opinion is that it is not a valid Routeing Point for an Anytime Day Single/Return Or Off Peak Single/Return from Warminster to Worcester so can be discounted. That leaves Westbury as the only valid Routeing Point.

So, what are the valid routes from Westbury to Worcester?

The shortest route as above. Or the following mapped routes in the Routeing Guide:

Westbury - Bath - Didcot - Oxford - Evesham - Worcester

Westbury - Chippenham - Didcot - Oxford - Evesham - Worcester

Westbury - Reading - Oxford - Evesham - Worcester

That's it. I can't work out why there's a suite of 'Not via Birmingham' fares when there are no valid routes that way anyway. That's one for the faresetting TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) for this route (CrossCountry) to answer. As the only permitted routes exclude Birmingham anyway all fares should be 'Any Permitted'.



 

[grahame]

For a flexible ticket between Warminster and Worcester, be that Anytime (Day), or Off Peak you are bound by the routeing printed on the ticket.

First off, the shortest route is always valid. That's Warminster - Westbury - Bristol TM^‡(resolve) - Gloucester and/or Cheltenham - Worcester.

And, of course, a direct train is always valid.

So, what are the valid routes from Westbury to Worcester?

The shortest route as above. Or the following mapped routes in the Routeing Guide:

Westbury - Bath - Didcot - Oxford - Evesham - Worcester

Westbury - Chippenham - Didcot - Oxford - Evesham - Worcester

Westbury - Reading - Oxford - Evesham - Worcester
 

How about Westbury - Swindon - Cheltenham Spa - Worcester?

[martyjon]

For a flexible ticket between Warminster and Worcester, be that Anytime (Day), or Off Peak you are bound by the routeing printed on the ticket.

First off, the shortest route is always valid. That's Warminster - Westbury - Bristol TM^‡(resolve) - Gloucester and/or Cheltenham - Worcester.

And, of course, a direct train is always valid.

So, what are the valid routes from Westbury to Worcester?

The shortest route as above. Or the following mapped routes in the Routeing Guide:

Westbury - Bath - Didcot - Oxford - Evesham - Worcester

Westbury - Chippenham - Didcot - Oxford - Evesham - Worcester

Westbury - Reading - Oxford - Evesham - Worcester
 

How about Westbury - Swindon - Cheltenham Spa - Worcester?

Whats more, wot about the direct (Brighton) - Westbury - Bath - Bristol - Gloucester - Cheltenham - Worcester - (Great Malvern) direct service.

[Oxonhutch]

How about Westbury - Swindon - Cheltenham Spa - Worcester?

None of the map combinations in the routeing guide PC+LH; WE+LH & WO feature Swindon to Gloucester via Stroud. Strange.

[JayMac]

Whats more, wot about the direct (Brighton) - Westbury - Bath - Bristol - Gloucester - Cheltenham - Worcester - (Great Malvern) direct service.

Shortest route and direct train. I did mention it my earlier post, before the Routeing Guide options.

First off, the shortest route is always valid. That's Warminster - Westbury - Bristol TM^‡(resolve) - Gloucester and/or Cheltenham - Worcester.

And, of course, a direct train is always valid.

[Clan Line]

For a flexible ticket between Warminster and Worcester, be that Anytime (Day), or Off Peak you are bound by the routeing printed on the ticket.
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As the only permitted routes exclude Birmingham anyway all fares should be 'Any Permitted'.

Mac, many thanks for that detailed response. I'm afraid when the words "Routeing Guide" are mentioned my eyes glaze over ! I'm glad that there are a couple of people in the Universe who understand how to use it.  I presume that it is called a "guide" because having calculated a route, it may still not be correct ?? 

I never realised what a selection of optional routes are available over a relatively simple route such as Warminster to Worcester. In the past I have always got the direct train as there used to be some ridiculously low Advance fares available. (I did trips  to Derby, Sheffield and other places in that neck of the woods via Worcester because Advance fares from Worcester onward were always incredibly cheap too) Those fares to Worcester have vanished, to be replaced by not (quite) so ridiculously cheap fares over rather ridiculous routes .......still, if you want a nice day out on the trains ..

I still think that the two words that confuse more rail travelers than any others are:- "Any Permitted" - a more confusing statement is hard to imagine.

[Fourbee]

For a flexible ticket between Warminster and Worcester, be that Anytime (Day), or Off Peak you are bound by the routeing printed on the ticket.
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As the only permitted routes exclude Birmingham anyway all fares should be 'Any Permitted'.

I still think that the two words that confuse more rail travelers than any others are:- "Any Permitted" - a more confusing statement is hard to imagine.

It's worth checking the journey planner as well as manually too; there has been much "tidying up" of the easements document over the years. I have an example I exploited recently which has been removed from the easements document, but hasn't been coded into the booking engines which still allow it (I won't publish it here for obvious reasons). In cases of ambiguity or contradiction the terms most favourable to the consumer prevail.