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Author Topic: Axed Rail Lines Reopening Proposals 2018  (Read 7462 times)
Dispatch Box
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« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2018, 13:04:55 »

Governments of either stripe have failed rail consistently through misguided policies and through feast and famine funding. I'm all for placing blame where it's due, so let's not forget that Barbara Castle closed more route mileage than Marples, and Blair's government only reopened 400m (that's metres) of track during their time in office. Thatcher balked at the Serpell report and then asset-stripped BR (British Rail(ways)) as traffic grew.


But we have had a lot of lines reopened, somebody had to do it, Wales has had a lot reopened as well, really nice ones.
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« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2018, 14:52:12 »

With the overspends on crossrail and GWML (Great Western Main Line) electrification I suspect there will be no new money for reopenings. The franchising system is imploding with lower passenger growth than forecast and the treasury may have to bail some of the operators out.

Frankly the heritage rail sector has a better record on 'reopenings then the main line ! I've always thought it a shame that there isn't some sort of railway order that spanned between light rail and a full safety case. This could give heritage lines a more realistic line speed of 40mph for using more modern rolling stock as a commuter service.
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johnneyw
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« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2018, 20:56:30 »

The Heathfield Line in Neutron Abbot could be an interesting study in mixed use 'enthusiast' reopening.
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« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2018, 04:02:14 »

The Heathfield Line in Neutron Abbot could be an interesting study in mixed use 'enthusiast' reopening.
Now there's an interesting off topic source..... Huh Roll Eyes
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grahame
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« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2018, 08:02:36 »

I've always thought it a shame that there isn't some sort of railway order that spanned between light rail and a full safety case.

Isn't there / wasn't there a suggestion that a more pragmatic maintenance regime, with compromised transit times ad timekeeping, could be put in place for designated railway lines ... no need for total "Gold Plated" main line standards for a branch which carries just a single lightweight DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) each way every hour or two.   I thought this was one of the benefits of line designation, with flexibility on meeting timing standards and on setting fares.  I suspect RichardB may be able to help with a comment here - my personal involvement was with TransWilts, which is a designated service (not line) ... the line itself, when open, carries so much heavy freight and is so often brought into express passenger as a diversionary route that reduction to an intermediate standard would be inappropriate.
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Lee
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« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2019, 01:42:12 »

Of course, if Chris Grayling and his civil servants have been looking in, they'll have seen that we've already sorted a plan for them. I've taken the liberty of highlighting in bold the sections that may be of most interest to them....

Having advised politicians as well as having worked on a number of rail business cases in the past, I do find myself concurring with a lot of what Red Squirrel says. Whilst BCR (Benefit Cost Ratio)'s and the like are an important component of individual schemes, when it comes to broad-brush transport strategy such as whether to take forward high-speed rail, whether to proceed with an electrification program or whether to expand the rail network, it is always the political decision that ultimately takes precedence over the business case.

Take HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)) for example – For years we were told that the figures didn't add up, until one day a political decision was taken, and suddenly they did. The same is true of electrification, out of favour throughout the early years of privatisation because of “lack of flexibility” until one day a political decision was taken, and suddenly it was all the rage again.

That doesn't, of course, answer what I believe were Red Squirrel's two separate main questions though – Namely “How much will expanding the rail network cost?” and “Should we just get on with it or simply give up?”

I've been giving this some thought over the last day or so, and here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to give you a scenario where it is absolutely 100% in the political interests of either the current Conservative Transport Secretary, or a potential incoming Labour Transport Secretary, to embark on the biggest expansion of the non-devolved UK (United Kingdom) rail network in terms of lines and stations in living memory. Futhermore, in this scenario, just one political decision is required to make it a reality, and no, it isn't scrapping HS2 – We can still have that as well, should we so wish.

First though, we need to decide what our network expansion program will consist of, and (ta-daa!) “How much will it cost?”

In choosing which line reopenings to include, I've gone with the relatively well-respected Campaign for Better Transport's list of “Top 12 Line Reopenings”, with one slight alteration – The list included the line between Stourbridge-Walsall-Lichfield, but since it was published, the section that includes Wednesbury and Dudley has been approved for conversion to light rail, so I've gone with Walsall-Lichfield instead.

In terms of costings, had I given myself weeks perhaps stretching into months to reply to this topic, I would have loved to have based them on following grahame's list to the letter. However, I've only actually given myself a day, so I'm afraid you'll have to excuse me relying on other people's calculations on this occasion. What I've done in each case is to take a rail industry recognised business case figure, and where necessary uprate it for inflation. This is obviously not perfect, as it's effectively my best guess based on the best guesses of those who officially studied the relevant case. As a result, some figures do look rather on the high side (and you can tell that from those cases which I've included that we've discussed at length on the forum), while some others look rather on the optimistic side to say the least:

Ashington-Blyth-Newcastle - £203 million

Portishead/Metrowest Phase 1 - £116 million

Walsall-Brownhills-Lichfield - £157 million

Newcastle-Washington-Durham Parkway-Ferryhill - £111 million

Lewes-Uckfield - £186 million

Skipton-Colne - £103 million

Leicester-Burton - £186 million

Fleetwood-Preston - £21 million

Wisbech-March - £122 million

Totton-Hythe - £15 million

East West Rail Complete Oxford-Cambridge - £1 billion

Bere Alston-Tavistock-Okehampton - £479 million

TOTAL - £2.699 billion

In addition, I will also include an additional £341 million for a massively-enlarged New Stations Fund, so we can get as many of those much-needed schemes opened as possible, rather than languishing on the drawing board indefinitely.

FINAL TOTAL - £3.04 billion

So how are we going to pay for all this, I hear you ask.

The DfT» (Department for Transport - about) has a Road Investment Strategy which will see £15.2 billion invested over 5 years in over 100 major schemes to enhance, renew and improve the road network, which equates to roughly – you've guessed it - £3.04 billion per year. The period runs from 2015-2020 and is known as RIS 1. In parallel to RIS 1, the Road Investment Strategy for the period post-2020 – known as RIS 2 – is being developed along very similar lines, but crucially for us, hasn't been finalised yet..

What I would propose is that the road schemes that would have been funded in the final year of RIS 1 – 2019-2020 – be deferred for one year and instead become the schemes that are funded in the opening year of RIS 2 – 2020-2021. Although this will undoubtedly inconvenience those road scheme promoters affected, remember we are not talking about cancelling any road schemes that have been approved as part of the RIS, and only delaying a few by just one year. When you consider that every scheme on our rail expansion list has been deferred by a lot longer than a year at some stage, I don't think this is a huge amount to ask.

The £3.04 billion that would have been allocated to RIS 1 in 2019-2020 would instead be allocated to the biggest expansion of the non-devolved UK rail network in terms of lines and stations in living memory, and that's the political decision that would have to be made.

So why would taking this decision be absolutely 100% in the political interests of either the current Conservative Transport Secretary, or a potential incoming Labour Transport Secretary?

If you are the current Conservative Transport Secretary, then you've gone from being the Transport Secretary who really wanted to be Transport Secretary to being the Transport Secretary who it all went wrong for. Whether there's a new train to be introduced, a line to be wired up, the integrity of a franchise system to uphold, a new timetable to smooth the way for, or interminable strikes to avoid, it's pretty much been rail industry failure all the way, and all on your watch. However, if you take this political decision, then although those of us with some rail knowledge might find the link tenuous at best, it's entirely possible that the public might look back and say “Until he came along, I never thought these lines and stations would reopen, but look at the network now!” and judge your overall time accordingly.


If you are an incoming Labour Transport Secretary in a Corbyn-led government, then you have to get straight on with renationalisation. Whatever your views on the merits or otherwise of this, there's no doubt that this will be a rocky process, with heated battles likely with those whose positions depend on the status quo being maintained. When things inevitably don't all go according to plan, there is clearly the potential for your time at the helm to be equally mired in the brown stuff. However, if you take this political decision, then although those of us with some rail knowledge might find the link tenuous at best, it's entirely possible that the public might look back and say “Until renationalisation, I never thought these lines and stations would reopen, but look at the network now!” and judge your overall time accordingly.

In the wider political context, unless the UK really is about to turn backside-over-bosum on its axis and vote to remain in the EU» (European Union - about) in a second referendum, then either a Conservative or Labour government is going to have to steer us through Brexit at the end of March 2019, and who knows what awaits us then? However, if you take this political decision, then although those of us with some rail knowledge might find the link tenuous at best, it's entirely possible that the public might look back and say “Until Brexit, I never thought these lines and stations would reopen, but look at the network now!” (you get the picture...)

Finally, if you happen (god forbid) to be Network Rail, having really not had the greatest of times recently in terms of figures, planning, delivery and pretty much everything else besides, perhaps this is an opportunity for me to focus on something you really have managed to get right (Savour it folks, it aint gonna happen often...)

Following the collapse of the tender process, Network Rail stepped in to take over the construction of the Borders Railway in November 2012, and agreed to build it by mid-2015. Despite major challenges, and having been praised along the way for deploying ground-breaking techniques to overcome line blockages, they duly did indeed build the Borders Railway by mid-2015. It's entirely possible that if they sign-up for this expansion program in late-2019, and build these lines by mid-2022 the public might look back and say “I thought Network Rail were on their last legs, but they built all these lines and stations, and look at the network now!”

I don't think even those of us with some rail knowledge would deny them the credit for that.
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« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2019, 20:35:54 »

How about Gloucester to Ross-on-wye through to Hereford.
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« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2019, 21:39:21 »

How about Gloucester to Ross-on-wye through to Hereford.

I am not sure that would stack up on the basis of any intermediate traffic generated. There are also some obstructions to the route through Ross.

Would it offer significant journey time savings on the route from Hereford to London?
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« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2019, 12:42:38 »

Was Crossrail really needed, it has swallowed up loads of money, (was very difficult to construct and still has not opened), that could of been spent in other areas of the country, they could of improved many more junctions, like at Westbury. Built a Great new station at Melksham and provided toilets with gold taps. Rebuilt Gloucester and many, many other much needed jobs, that are still waiting for money.
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Lee
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« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2019, 15:51:31 »

Long thought to be at the top of Chris Grayling's list if he did go for a reopening programme, Skipton-Colne receives more warm words from the Transport Secretary - https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/keighleynews/17385734.re-opening-colne-skipton-rail-link-on-amber-says-minister/

Quote from: Chris Grayling
"The initial study has established that it is technically feasible to re-open the route.

"This is the next stage to look at whether the demand for freight is enough to make it viable.

"The value of re-opening the line to passengers is a given but we need to see if enough freight would use it to justify it.

"I am personally committed to re-opening the Colne to Skipton line as an alternative route across the Pennines for freight traffic but that does not mean it will happen. The business case needs to be made.

"If it is the Department for Transport would provide the £400m needed for the scheme which would include improvements to the East Lancashire line from Preston through Accrington and Blackburn, possibly including doubling tracking the section from Burnley to Colne.

"If the case is made, work on re-opening the line would start in the early to mid-2020s"
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onthecushions
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« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2019, 13:48:53 »


I'm warming to Grayling. Of the list of possible re-openings, Colne - Skipton is the most strategic. The English Regions through which the Trans-Pennine routes pass have over 12M inhabitants with much of the UK (United Kingdom)'s surviving manufacturing industry. They also have Britain's best port, Liverpool, with Hull an outlet to the East. Yet its railways have mostly been cut back since the 1950's as compared to the South and London-bound routes. Routes through populous towns which in the South would have had annual footfalls in the millions were cut back to single track with DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s, with large and handsome stations reduced to bus shelters contributing to economic decline and decay.

The problem today is that the North is recovering - it has a better road system arguably than the South and large numbers are trying to return to the skimpy train services planned on a no-growth basis. The Pennines are a formidable obstacle imposing long wet tunnels, sharp curves and savage weather on crossings. The routes are mostly double track, limiting freight. The best route is the Calder Valley, gently graded and curved for the most part but somewhat indirect in consequence.

Re-opening Colne - Skipton while politically popular locally would give a clear freight route even with new passenger services. There would be much expensive re-doubling and signalling of the run-down connecting lines and new pinch points would be created such as the double track throat East of Leeds - perhaps the Bradford Crossrail might be a good idea. The Copy Pit line recently upgraded might also be a partial alternative.

The electrification problems are a side issue. The most important is Leeds - York (an easy 19 miles net, although 4-track may be needed to Micklefield). This affects directly or indirectly every Region in the UK and would allow the partial splitting of XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) (and longer Voyagers) as has happened on the WCML (West Coast Main Line).

Crayons out,

OTC

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« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2019, 13:58:09 »


I'm warming to Grayling...


I'm not. I'm reminded of Pepys' description of Thomas Bloodworth (thanks, T (FFT, N!))!:

Quote
willing though it may be not very able, to do great things
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« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2019, 08:42:16 »

Just to show that its not always the usual suspects that are the biggest barriers to rail reopenings, check out the comments from a St Andrews councillor for refusing to bridge the remaining relatively small funding gap that exists for a feasibility study into rail reopening there, despite the Scottish Government having pledged £40k from their Local Rail Development Fund - https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/fife/815063/st-andrews-rail-link-campaign-denied-funding-request/
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2019, 09:22:39 »


I'm warming to Grayling...


I'm not. I'm reminded of Pepys' description of Thomas Bloodworth (thanks, T (FFT, N!))!:

Quote
willing though it may be not very able, to do great things


Just out of interest, who was the last S of S for Transport that the enthusiast etc community liked?


I'm reminded that it's virtually emblematic for employees/interest groups to have utter disdain for whichever politician is their "Boss", with very few exceptions whether they are teachers, nurses etc?
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grahame
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« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2019, 10:04:33 »

Just out of interest, who was the last S of S for Transport that the enthusiast etc community liked?

Members, you have a quite a choice!

Norman Fowler5 January 198114 September 1981Conservative
David Howell14 September 198111 June 1983Conservative
Tom King11 June 198316 October 1983Conservative
Hon. Nicholas Ridley16 October 198321 May 1986Conservative
John Moore21 May 198613 June 1987Conservative
Paul Channon13 June 198724 July 1989Conservative
Cecil Parkinson24 July 198928 November 1990Conservative
Malcolm Rifkind28 November 199010 April 1992Conservative
John MacGregor10 April 199220 July 1994Conservative
Brian Mawhinney20 July 19945 July 1995Conservative
Sir George Young, Bt5 July 19952 May 1997Conservative
John Prescott2 May 19978 June 2001Labour
Stephen Byers8 June 200129 May 2002Labour
Alistair Darling29 May 20025 May 2006Labour
Douglas Alexander5 May 200627 June 2007Labour
Ruth Kelly28 June 20073 October 2008Labour
Geoff Hoon3 October 20085 June 2009Labour
The Lord Adonis5 June 200911 May 2010Labour
Philip Hammond12 May 201014 October 2011Conservative
Justine Greening14 October 20114 September 2012Conservative
Patrick McLoughlin4 September 201214 July 2016Conservative
Chris Grayling14 July 2016IncumbentConservative

Question was "S of S".  There have been others - typically minister of state at the department - who have played key role - Baroness Kramer, Claire Perry, Derek Twigg, Jo Johnson, John Spellar, Norman Baker, Paul Maynard and Tom Harris come to mind; in these cases, their influence was largely governed by what the secretary of state at the time decided to deal with directly and what the chose to delegate.

I suspect that we should have a poll to answer the question about who (members) liked ...
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