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Author Topic: HS2 Downgrade  (Read 848 times)
TaplowGreen
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« on: January 14, 2019, 06:10:44 am »

Beginning of the end?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jan/13/hs2-may-run-fewer-slower-trains-to-stay-on-budget-and-schedule?fbclid=IwAR1133Oubzbhg6aTZS6kLjRGCEfSAi--89edBfgqlbMen6amcFtfHD06rJk
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mjones
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« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2019, 08:16:54 am »

Probably not the end with work starting on the ground, but it is frustrating that if slightly longer journey times are  now acceptable then the less controversial route options could have been chosen in the first place,  e.g. along the M1 corridor.  This could have avoided a lot of the expensive additional tunnelling that was added in response to local opposition,  and would therefore  have been cheaper overall.
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Surrey 455
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« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2019, 09:07:20 am »

From the linked article
Quote
The economising options discussed included...  reducing the number of trains per hour from 18 to 14

Is that in both directions? Even with a reduction, that's still a frequent service.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2019, 11:08:25 am »

Old news, Guardian just catching up.
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WSW Frome
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« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2019, 05:48:07 pm »

Previous technical comment has indicated that the proposed HS2 design line speed was higher that most? (any?) international high speed rail lines. Thus making UK plc unique with the consequence of additional infrastructure cost and energy consumption during normal use.

This recent announcement presumably reduces the planned line speed to that of a "normal" HS route with relevant cost savings. So in many ways a sensible decision but many (politicians etc.) will only seize on the headline in a negative way.
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stuving
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« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2019, 06:17:44 pm »

Previous technical comment has indicated that the proposed HS2 design line speed was higher that most? (any?) international high speed rail lines. Thus making UK plc unique with the consequence of additional infrastructure cost and energy consumption during normal use.

This recent announcement presumably reduces the planned line speed to that of a "normal" HS route with relevant cost savings. So in many ways a sensible decision but many (politicians etc.) will only seize on the headline in a negative way.

This is from the PWC benchmarking study (reported earlier):

Quote
The maximum operating speed of HS2 Phase Two is 360kph where alignment and environmental impact allows, with a normal operating speed of between 320kph and 340kph. Such speeds are necessary to meet the journey time requirements set by the Sponsor.

These speeds are higher than many comparators but not unique, with operating speeds across comparators varying between 250kph and 350kph. At the time of writing, none are known to be operating above 350kph in normal service. In France, Spain and Italy, typical operating speeds are 300kph to 320kph, with alignments historically designed for 350kph. However, recently constructed lines, including LGV Est in France and the line from Milan to Bologna in Italy, have alignments designed for 400kph. Italy is planning to increase the operating speed on this route to 360kph. In European countries with shorter distances between cities, including Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands, speeds can be as low as 250kph.

HS2 Phase Two is future-proofing the route by accommodating an alignment design speed of 400kph where possible, which is consistent with many high speed railways in Italy, China and other parts of Asia. Higher operating speeds are known to drive cost higher in two ways. Firstly, dynamic loading and aerodynamic effects drive marginally greater costs in assets such as viaducts and tunnels. Secondly, a higher speed reduces flexibility in the vertical and horizontal alignment of the railway, making it more difficult to avoid costly assets like tunnels and viaducts, driving more significant costs. HS2 Ltd is assessing whether alternative speeds would provide cost saving opportunities.

So, pretty much in line with lines currently being designed elsewhere.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2019, 08:40:41 am »

Apparently, this report is based on the recent All Parliamentary Rail Group meeting last week in the Copmmons. Does Hansard record these Group meetings?
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didcotdean
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« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2019, 09:06:10 am »

No, as these aren't select committees, more ad hoc groups of Parliamentarians sharing an interest. No official status at all.

It does have a twitter account where reports get publicised: twitter.com/allpartyrail

There is also a separate All-Party Parliamentary Rail in the North Group and one for East-West Rail.
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Dispatch Box
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« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2019, 12:15:37 pm »

Apparently, this report is based on the recent All Parliamentary Rail Group meeting last week in the Copmmons. Does Hansard record these Group meetings?

Could I please ask members if they would check spelling of messages, before they hit the post button, I have seen many mistakes in this forum over the past few weeks, I try to make my posts as accurate as possible. I usually post a message and re edit, if I see a mistake.

Not known yet if he does.
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grahame
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« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2019, 01:13:46 pm »

Could I please ask members if they would check spelling of messages, before they hit the post button, I have seen many mistakes in this forum over the past few weeks, I try to make my posts as accurate as possible. I usually post a message and re edit, if I see a mistake.

Did not think that it had already been used,  For arguments sake, For example, If it was already installed between Birmingham New Street and Westerleigh Junction, how would a driver know which route he is given at signal G50 at Barnwood Junction, At the moment he has a four Aspect signal with a Pos 4,5,6 Junction Indicator, No indicator is down avoiding, pos 4 is up avoiding + avoiding loop via extra stencil, pos 5 down loop, pos 6 down main into Gloucester, Then another signal with the same indications G52, but routes to the platforms, So what type of screen or device would he have for the routes described and does he have some sort of marker board where the block section is.

If posts are well spelled, with correct punctuation and capitalisation, they tend to be well regarded. Posts which are peppered with spelling mistakes, oddly capitalised throughout, and lacking full stops tend to be hard to read, and leave me and other questioning their content.

Yes, of course all members are encouraged to write perfect posts ... but there's no 'rule' on that. I would rather see a pearl of wisdom from a well informed member from is mobile phone - even with the odd blooper - than I would miss it because he's decided it's not worth risking the attention of the spelling police.
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Celestial
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« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2019, 01:31:58 pm »

Apparently, this report is based on the recent All Parliamentary Rail Group meeting last week in the Copmmons. Does Hansard record these Group meetings?

Could I please ask members if they would check spelling of messages, before they hit the post button, I have seen many mistakes in this forum over the past few weeks, I try to make my posts as accurate as possible. I usually post a message and re edit, if I see a mistake.

Not known yet if he does.

I did permit myself a wry smile coming from someone who litters their posts with "should of" instead of "should have".
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Dispatch Box
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« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2019, 02:05:07 pm »

Apparently, this report is based on the recent All Parliamentary Rail Group meeting last week in the Copmmons. Does Hansard record these Group meetings?

Could I please ask members if they would check spelling of messages, before they hit the post button, I have seen many mistakes in this forum over the past few weeks, I try to make my posts as accurate as possible. I usually post a message and re edit, if I see a mistake.

Not known yet if he does.

I did permit myself a wry smile coming from someone who litters their posts with "should of" instead of "should have".


Correction, perhaps that will now change, only going on by what I was taught at school.
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bignosemac
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« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2019, 02:45:15 pm »

If posts are well spelled, with correct punctuation and capitalisation, they tend to be well regarded. Posts which are peppered with spelling mistakes, oddly capitalised throughout, and lacking full stops tend to be hard to read, and leave me and other questioning their content.

Yes, of course all members are encouraged to write perfect posts ... but there's no 'rule' on that. I would rather see a pearl of wisdom from a well informed member from is mobile phone - even with the odd blooper - than I would miss it because he's decided it's not worth risking the attention of the spelling police.

That's excellent advice grahame. Tongue Wink Grin

I did permit myself a wry smile coming from someone who litters their posts with "should of" instead of "should have".

Glad I wasn't alone in spotting that. I would have highlighted the irony had you not done so.

I am one of those grammar pedants who occasionally flags up syntax and spelling. But I'm also aware I'm not perfect. As long as the intent of a post is clear then the odd error is okay. Let's not loose site of that.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 02:53:27 pm by bignosemac » Logged

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ChrisB
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« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2019, 03:04:04 pm »

ha ha! I see what you did there.

There were too many commas in the OPs post, but let's all ignore those too.
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2019, 03:26:36 pm »

...Let's not loose site of that.

If you ask me, our grahame's a bit of a lose cannon...
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