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Author Topic: Best ticket combo?  (Read 4008 times)
Adelante_CCT
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« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2019, 10:12:04 »

Real victory would be to travel by train to Melksham that late in the evening
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ChrisB
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« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2019, 11:28:51 »

But Bath - Melksham is a FareSaver bus isn't it? I was on the X72 on Saturday for the first time....
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grahame
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« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2019, 12:14:13 »

But Bath - Melksham is a FareSaver bus isn't it? I was on the X72 on Saturday for the first time....

Faresaver run the X72 on Monday to Saturday until about 6 p.m., hourly with some extra

First run the D3, Monday to Saturday, every 30 minutes but much thinner in the evening, last bus 23:20 from Bath. It also runs on Sunday - every 2 hours, just five rounds trips so last bus off Bath at 19:00.

The routes do differ somewhat ... and the D3 in the evening picks up some of the stuff that the X72 covers during the day. If you want details of how the fares work, I'll up my server limits to let me post a long enough article  Grin
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Lee
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« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2019, 12:17:56 »

Bath-Melksham is served by both the First D3 service and the Faresaver X72 service. They combine to provide an every 15 minute frequency between Melksham-Bath during Monday to Friday daytimes, with the AvonRider ticket valid on both services.

Faresaver X72 - http://www.faresaver.co.uk/timetables/5b8cdc4b48847.pdf

First D3 Timetable - https://www.firstgroup.com/bristol-bath-and-west/plan-journey/timetables/?day=1&source_id=2&service=D3&routeid=22442381&operator=3&print=pdf

Sorry for long links - On mobile and not got time to make more user friendly.
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Fourbee
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« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2019, 12:31:43 »

I agree that there are many easements that aren't correctly coded into journey planners and booking engines. Whether this is deliberate or oversight I know not.

There are also easements which are coded into the journey planners, but that have subsequently been removed from the document, but not uncoded IYSWIM.

I was using one just the other day and got my ticket checked at the most "vulnerable" point, which raised an eyebrow, but nothing more was said.
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stuving
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« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2019, 12:47:15 »

I agree that there are many easements that aren't correctly coded into journey planners and booking engines. Whether this is deliberate or oversight I know not.

There are also easements which are coded into the journey planners, but that have subsequently been removed from the document, but not uncoded IYSWIM.

But easements aren't coded - or shouldn't be - they are distributed as part of the NRG data feed on every day there is a change.
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JayMac
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« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2019, 16:17:51 »

Try Chippenham - Bromsgrove in a booking engine with a via point of Birmingham New St added. I don't think there's any engine that will show the easement allowed journey opportunities. Not coded.

Try Westbury - Newbury with a via point of Reading. Many/most booking engines will show the easement allowed journeys. Coded.

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Reginald25
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« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2019, 16:48:25 »

Bath-Melksham is served by both the First D3 service and the Faresaver X72 service. They combine to provide an every 15 minute frequency between Melksham-Bath during Monday to Friday daytimes, with the AvonRider ticket valid on both services.

Faresaver X72 - http://www.faresaver.co.uk/timetables/5b8cdc4b48847.pdf

First D3 Timetable - https://www.firstgroup.com/bristol-bath-and-west/plan-journey/timetables/?day=1&source_id=2&service=D3&routeid=22442381&operator=3&print=pdf

Sorry for long links - On mobile and not got time to make more user friendly.

Not sure if its a 15 minute frequency. I thought there were 3 an hour? Usually only use the FB due to the variations on the route which allows me to get closer to home, so not too sure of the Faresaver times.
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Lee
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« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2019, 17:33:28 »

Bath-Melksham is served by both the First D3 service and the Faresaver X72 service. They combine to provide an every 15 minute frequency between Melksham-Bath during Monday to Friday daytimes, with the AvonRider ticket valid on both services.

Faresaver X72 - http://www.faresaver.co.uk/timetables/5b8cdc4b48847.pdf

First D3 Timetable - https://www.firstgroup.com/bristol-bath-and-west/plan-journey/timetables/?day=1&source_id=2&service=D3&routeid=22442381&operator=3&print=pdf

Sorry for long links - On mobile and not got time to make more user friendly.

Not sure if its a 15 minute frequency. I thought there were 3 an hour? Usually only use the FB due to the variations on the route which allows me to get closer to home, so not too sure of the Faresaver times.

On Monday to Friday, from 1053 through to 1523 there are 4 buses an hour from Melksham Market Place to Bath at an every 15 minute frequency. The X72 leaves Melksham Market Place at 53 and 23 minutes past the hour, and the D3 leaves Melksham Market Place at 08 and 38 minutes past the hour.

I posted links to both the X72 and D3 timetables in my original post.
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bobm
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« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2019, 18:04:30 »

Quote from: bignosemac link=topic=20953.msg256900#msg256900
Saying "bignosemac said it was okay" is unlikely to wash if you are challenged.

Especially at the gate line at Paddington 😀
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stuving
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« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2019, 19:25:32 »

Try Chippenham - Bromsgrove in a booking engine with a via point of Birmingham New St added. I don't think there's any engine that will show the easement allowed journey opportunities. Not coded.

Try Westbury - Newbury with a via point of Reading. Many/most booking engines will show the easement allowed journeys. Coded.

My use of that versatile word "coded" may have been confusing.

The NRG data feed includes easements, and it is expected that routeing engines will understand these and implement the easements. No software changes (i.e coding) should be required.

The data format can represent almost all the easements wa can see in the text file, and that includes the relevant one (700351). There are some easements that contain elements that don't map onto any of the definition records, but I have no idea whether these words are really needed (by machine or human) or just there because.

There is no way in the data feed to indicate that an easement exists but cannot be represented in the file. The format of the readable text is undefined (except as "free text") so is not a substitute. Of course the data feed may not be complete or self-consistent, but there's no identified source of "additional definition information for humans".

That leaves the question of whether the routeing engines actually implement all the easements correctly. I think we all know that these are big complicated heaps of software, and all of them give the wrong answers at times. The most complicated bits of the fares/routes/timetables system are where the errors arise, and easements are complicated to deal with so it's no great surprise they aren't always allowed. What's harder to say, or even to guess, is whether the software should cope but fails, requires some human help (e.g. to tweak data tables rather then reprogram) which is lacking, or this was never part of the design but was accepted as a shortcoming to be incorporated later (and may or may not ever be).
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stuving
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« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2019, 22:20:07 »

Since the topic has arisen, here (as far as I can work out) is the current set of data feed specifications for journey planners. Probably only suitable for those of you really like interface definition documents - but as my Dad used to say, there's no accounting for tastes.

National Routeing Guide Data Feed Specification
Document Ref: RSPS5047 Version: 02-00    15-May-2017


Timetable Information Data Feed Interface Specification
Document Ref: RSPS5046 Version: 03-00 01-Aug-2018


Fares and Associated Data Feed Interface Specification
Document Ref: RSPS5045 Version: 02-00 15-May-2017


Note that none of these was located via a publicly offered link, and older versions are also still accessible on-line and can be found in searches. In the case of the most obvious link on National Rail's open data support pages, that leads to a very old version of the fares document.
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Reginald25
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« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2019, 22:22:26 »

Bath-Melksham is served by both the First D3 service and the Faresaver X72 service. They combine to provide an every 15 minute frequency between Melksham-Bath during Monday to Friday daytimes, with the AvonRider ticket valid on both services.

Faresaver X72 - http://www.faresaver.co.uk/timetables/5b8cdc4b48847.pdf

First D3 Timetable - https://www.firstgroup.com/bristol-bath-and-west/plan-journey/timetables/?day=1&source_id=2&service=D3&routeid=22442381&operator=3&print=pdf

Sorry for long links - On mobile and not got time to make more user friendly.

Not sure if its a 15 minute frequency. I thought there were 3 an hour? Usually only use the FB due to the variations on the route which allows me to get closer to home, so not too sure of the Faresaver times.

On Monday to Friday, from 1053 through to 1523 there are 4 buses an hour from Melksham Market Place to Bath at an every 15 minute frequency. The X72 leaves Melksham Market Place at 53 and 23 minutes past the hour, and the D3 leaves Melksham Market Place at 08 and 38 minutes past the hour.

I posted links to both the X72 and D3 timetables in my original post.
Yeah. Sorry, I've just come back from Bath and studied the timetable, and there are 4 an hour. I've learnt something today!
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grahame
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« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2019, 17:44:18 »

An update from the trip ... though final plans were reduced to take out Stourbridge and Bath Spa, as I've got a severe cold / bout of the Flu and have slashed my plans just to the essentials.  I stuck absolutely to allowed fares (of course) but did make use of the easement.  I  came up from Worcester this morning, via Bromsgrove and doubled back at New Street, stopping there for a couple of hours for my meeting.   Whether the staff or barriers knew about the easement, I haven't a clue - the barriers at New Street were locked open in both directions and there was no ticket check on the Cross Country train.

Many thanks, BigNoseMac, for reminding me of that easement (you have told me before, I know, but my mind is a sieve at times) and I owe you a pint.   I'm off for a pint of hot medicinal orange.
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