Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 08:15 29 Mar 2024
- Bus plunges off South Africa bridge, killing 45
- Easter getaway begins with flood alerts in place
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
29th Mar (1913)
Foundation of National Union or Railwaymen (*)

Train RunningCancelled
07:20 Reading to Gatwick Airport
08:13 Newbury to Bedwyn
08:46 Bedwyn to Newbury
09:00 Gatwick Airport to Reading
09:54 Bedwyn to Newbury
10:22 Newbury to Bedwyn
11:29 Newbury to Bedwyn
11:57 Bedwyn to Newbury
12:52 Bedwyn to Newbury
Short Run
04:54 Plymouth to London Paddington
05:23 Hereford to London Paddington
05:33 Plymouth to London Paddington
05:55 Plymouth to London Paddington
06:37 Plymouth to London Paddington
07:03 London Paddington to Paignton
07:24 Exmouth to Paignton
07:40 Bristol Temple Meads to Westbury
08:35 Plymouth to London Paddington
08:41 Westbury to Bristol Temple Meads
09:45 Bristol Temple Meads to Salisbury
10:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids
Delayed
05:03 Penzance to London Paddington
06:05 Penzance to London Paddington
07:10 Penzance to London Paddington
07:38 Bristol Temple Meads to Penzance
08:03 London Paddington to Penzance
08:15 Penzance to London Paddington
09:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
09:37 London Paddington to Paignton
10:04 London Paddington to Penzance
11:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
12:15 Penzance to London Paddington
PollsOpen and recent polls
Closed 2024-03-25 Easter Escape - to where?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 29, 2024, 08:27:18 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[77] would you like your own LIVE train station departure board?
[72] West Wiltshire Bus Changes April 2024
[70] Reversing Beeching - bring heritage and freight lines into the...
[63] Return of the BRUTE?
[56] Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption el...
[44] 2024 - Service update and amendment log, Swindon <-> Westbury...
 
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
Author Topic: Dawlish solution - add 2.5m to the sea wall  (Read 14538 times)
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40691



View Profile WWW Email
« on: February 05, 2019, 03:47:24 »

From The BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page)

Quote
Battered Dawlish rail line to get higher wall

A coastal railway line that washed into the sea five years ago may soon be protected from the wind and waves by a new wall.

The sea defences in Dawlish, Devon, collapsed during storms on 4 February 2014, leaving the tracks dangling above the waves.

Network Rail has applied for permission to raise the wall from its current height of 5m to 7.5m.

The plans will need to be approved by Teignbridge council and the government.

Network Rail said the wall would give "far more protection from waves and extreme weather" and claimed it is "future-proofed" against rising sea levels.

I suspect this will need merging

Network Rail say it will future-proof (the infrastructure) against rising sea levels and provide far more protection from waves and extreme weather.  Does this mean that the line will be just as open and trains just as able to run through Dawish as they can run through (say) Yatton no matter what the tide, wind, weather, train types in use are, 364 days a year?
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40691



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2019, 04:45:00 »

Network Rail press release at https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/network-rail-submits-plans-for-improved-sea-wall-at-dawlish-as-part-of-the-south-west-rail-resilience-programme

Seems to go strong on the protection of the town and the railway ... much less (anything significant anyone can spot?) about the protection of trains during storms.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
SandTEngineer
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3485


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2019, 09:13:11 »

More fiddling whilst Rome burns........ Roll Eyes Tongue

This doesn't address the fundemental underlying issue of the need for a diversionary route away from the area.

A render showing the sea wall proposal has appeared elsewhere here: https://cdn.prgloo.com/media/6e22c772e0fb4d37b64c8e22c9d25ef7.png?width=1035&height=960
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 09:18:41 by SandTEngineer » Logged
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4256


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2019, 09:35:15 »


I suspect this will need merging

Before submerging...

I think, as SandTengineer says, it's simply buying time rather than an actual solution.
Logged

Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
Red Squirrel
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5190


There are some who call me... Tim


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2019, 09:59:58 »

There's a feature on Dawlish in Rail 871, which concludes:

Quote
All of this leaves the 'Northern Route' [via Okehampton] as the only logical alternative that can serve a distinct market in its own right while still providing crucial diversionary capacity when needed.
Logged

Things take longer to happen than you think they will, and then they happen faster than you thought they could.
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7156


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2019, 10:32:21 »

More fiddling whilst Rome burns........ Roll Eyes Tongue

This doesn't address the fundemental underlying issue of the need for a diversionary route away from the area.

..and indeed they say it doesn't. What they do say about wider issues is this:
Quote
These plans have been submitted to Teignbridge District Council with the knowledge of the Secretary of State for Transport and the outcome of the council’s decision will help inform government’s decision on next steps for the South West Rail Resilience Programme.

That looks to me like their pitch is "if we can't strengthen this railway line (which does protect your town too, you know), we'll have to build another one as the main line and that would probably mean closing this one".

Logged
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7156


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2019, 10:36:23 »

Where does that 2.5 m come form? Or rather where is it going - not on the top, judging by the pictures. So presumably it's to be made higher at the bottom. This picture suggests just that:

Somehow I can't see that - loss of width of a very narrow beach, and what it does to the view inland - being at all popular.
Logged
SandTEngineer
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3485


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2019, 17:57:11 »

I think we need to send for this person:

Logged
JayMac
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 18894



View Profile
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2019, 18:37:48 »

There's a feature on Dawlish in Rail 871, which concludes:

Quote
All of this leaves the 'Northern Route' [via Okehampton] as the only logical alternative that can serve a distinct market in its own right while still providing crucial diversionary capacity when needed.

With Torbay, Teignbridge and the South Hams seemingly not worthy of having any 'crucial diversionary capacity'.

That far more densely populated part of Devon will, during disruption, continue to be relegated to Rail Replacement Buses while trains trundle across the edge of Dartmoor to satisfy the dewy eyed lovers of the LSWR (London South Western Railway).

Dawlish Avoiding Line, Now.

Logged

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

- Sir Terry Pratchett.
SandTEngineer
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3485


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2019, 21:08:22 »

There's a feature on Dawlish in Rail 871, which concludes:

Quote
All of this leaves the 'Northern Route' [via Okehampton] as the only logical alternative that can serve a distinct market in its own right while still providing crucial diversionary capacity when needed.

With Torbay, Teignbridge and the South Hams seemingly not worthy of having any 'crucial diversionary capacity'.

That far more densely populated part of Devon will, during disruption, continue to be relegated to Rail Replacement Buses while trains trundle across the edge of Dartmoor to satisfy the dewy eyed lovers of the LSWR (London South Western Railway).

Dawlish Avoiding Line, Now.

I totally agree BNM.  I think we discussed on here before about the GWR (Great Western Railway) 1930s plan to build the diversion but still have stations for Teignmouth and Dawlish on it, so they wouldn't be cut out Grin
Logged
Southernman
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 114


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2019, 22:44:33 »

Good to see the arguments continue! What the Dawlish Avoiding line entails is a much higher cost (and no sea views as inland), continued responsibility to maintain the seawall and no gain in fare take - only an ongoing maintenance cost. Do you propose closing the existing line?

The Okehampton route brings the railway much nearer to a large area (OK not highly populated). Can be built (in railway terms) quickly as a mainly single track high speed route along an existing formation which would be useful when engineering works/emergencies occur anywhere between Plymouth and Exeter - not just around Dawlish.

Regrettably I rather doubt if either plan will be built (unless there is another major issue along the seawall) as there is no money!
Logged
JayMac
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 18894



View Profile
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2019, 23:57:06 »

Do you propose closing the existing line?

No. The sea will eventually do that job.
Logged

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

- Sir Terry Pratchett.
bradshaw
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1450



View Profile
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2019, 08:40:52 »

It is not just the sea wall that has to be considered. There are the cliffs to the east of Dawlish which are not the most stable. Another engineering solution is needed here.

Whilst I would like to see the Southern route return, I believe focus should be on getting the Okehampton and Tavistock lines open first.
Once those are completed then it may be worth looking at linking them.

If an inland route is to be built at Dawlish can you justify keeping the original route?
Logged
Red Squirrel
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5190


There are some who call me... Tim


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2019, 09:20:48 »

This is not a zero-sum game.

At some point a DAL may well become a necessity, but in the medium term the Okehampton route is much cheaper and would be a net gain - more options for more people, and more resilience.

No-one is seriously suggesting cutting off rail links for a million people in order to put 8,000 back on the map, and anyone who thinks there would be much left for LSWR (London South Western Railway) fans to get dewy-eyed about if that line was re-engineered and rebuilt hasn't seen the Borders Railway!
Logged

Things take longer to happen than you think they will, and then they happen faster than you thought they could.
TaplowGreen
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7747



View Profile
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2019, 09:59:06 »

I think we need to send for this person:



Sadly, this is all you have just now......
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page