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Author Topic: Buses - dirty-feeling engines ticking over.  (Read 883 times)
grahame
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« on: February 08, 2019, 05:38:13 am »

Can you have one of those "epiphany moments"?

Lisa and I had an appointment in Devizes yesterday ... crossed over the road at a public crossing behind a bus waiting on the stand and ... what a stink of diesel and what a filthy vehicle.  After our appointment, we crossed back.  A different couple of buses on that same stop, once again running engines.  Once again, filthy back ends.

That first crossing the road brought home to me / reminded me of the importance of clean air ... confirmed in quality (no quantity measure) that buses really should be cleaned up.
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« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2019, 06:35:45 am »

Most of First Kernow's fleet now have stop/start which is a improvement. They are physical dirty but I think you have to expect that at this time of year considering some of the lanes they go down...
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7 Billion people on a wet rock - of course we're not happy

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GBM
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« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2019, 06:52:56 am »

Most of First Kernow's fleet now have stop/start which is a improvement. They are physical dirty but I think you have to expect that at this time of year considering some of the lanes they go down...
Start/stop only works when the doors are opened. Even that can be manually overridden if the driver wishes.
If the driver stops in a bus stop to wait time (or when stuck in traffic), the engine will continue to run.
All FK vehicles now have Adblue additive so the days of thick black smoke are considerably reduced; more like thinner light grey exhaust.
As OO says, the backs will always be in a dreadful state.  Camborne has a bus wash; Truro has a manual hose pressure washer.
Overnight cleaner(s) at other depots do not have enough time to clean the vehicles properly as they come off the road, let alone wash them as well.
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grahame
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« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2019, 07:01:31 am »

To clarify ... the name "Devizes" means "at the dividing point", and it's very much that way with buses as well as diocese where it's (I think) Gloucester, Wells and Salisbury that meet.  I was very careful not to name any bus company, but please bear in mind that our appointment was mid afternoon on a weekday, and First one serve Devizes in the evenings and on Sundays.

I look with further interest at the differing reactions of different bus companies to the Bath clean air charging proposals. Noting such differences, I conclude that the issues raised by the consultation have a range of attitudes and solutions in answer to them.
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LiskeardRich
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« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2019, 10:43:15 am »

Most of First Kernow's fleet now have stop/start which is a improvement. They are physical dirty but I think you have to expect that at this time of year considering some of the lanes they go down...
Start/stop only works when the doors are opened. Even that can be manually overridden if the driver wishes.
If the driver stops in a bus stop to wait time (or when stuck in traffic), the engine will continue to run.
All FK vehicles now have Adblue additive so the days of thick black smoke are considerably reduced; more like thinner light grey exhaust.
As OO says, the backs will always be in a dreadful state.  Camborne has a bus wash; Truro has a manual hose pressure washer.
Overnight cleaner(s) at other depots do not have enough time to clean the vehicles properly as they come off the road, let alone wash them as well.

The stop start also only works if certain criteria are met in the bus operating conditions. I donít know how to override it, but they often restart before I shut the doors.
Thereís a pressure washer at summercourt and someone rostered on clean each day, but thereís only a finite time, and theyíre dirty within a few hours operating anyway. I took a Trident to Padstow recently that had been washed the same morning. By afternoon it was filthy Again. I also believe thereís a minimum air temperature to operate the washes, donít want it all freezing on the ground
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broadgage
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« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2019, 11:10:43 am »

Start/stop engine control on most vehicles detects the battery voltage and the engine temperature, with automatic stopping inhibited if the battery is not fully charged or if the engine has not reached normal operating temperature.

On some vehicles it also auto starts the engine even when not otherwise required, either after a pre-set time, or when the battery voltage drops to a certain figure.
Otherwise a prolonged stop in very bad congestion would discharge the battery to the extent that starting would be doubtful.

On vehicles with air brakes, low air pressure will also start the engine when otherwise not required.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
GBM
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« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2019, 01:11:25 pm »

The stop start also only works if certain criteria are met in the bus operating conditions. I donít know how to override it, but they often restart before I shut the doors.
Engine stop when doors open is a safety feature of course. Like many safety items, it can be manually over-ridden by the driver at any stop. This is, of course, against First requirements!
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ellendune
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« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2019, 01:18:56 pm »

To clarify ... the name "Devizes" means "at the dividing point", and it's very much that way with buses as well as diocese where it's (I think) Gloucester, Wells and Salisbury that meet. 

The nearest point of the Diocese of Gloucester to Devizes is somewhere around Tetbury!

Devizes is indeed in the Diocese of Salisbury as is Calne, Trowbridge, Bradford and Melksham. Chippenham, Lacock and Corsham are in the Diocese of Bristol. The nearest places I can think of in the Diocese of Bath and Wells is Freshford and Frome.    
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« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2019, 02:37:00 pm »

Grahame can be a mighty fount of knowledge at times....or should that be mitrier font....but obviously his ecclesiastical and geographical knowledge boundaries have to stop somewhere !
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grahame
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« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2019, 02:53:23 pm »

Grahame can be a mighty fount of knowledge at times....or should that be mitrier font....but obviously his ecclesiastical and geographical knowledge boundaries have to stop somewhere !

I will freely admit to my ecclesiastical knowledge being slim to put it mildly, mainly because my interest in such things is slim. I do know that the buses were chucking out obnoxious yuk while waiting for their next services (which I object to) and were filthy (which I can understand somewhat, and at least that Yuk isn't being passed into our air and lungs!)
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« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2019, 09:46:03 am »

I know in London, many buses work with an electric motor powered by diesel generator. The generator cuts out when stationery at bus stops, traffic lights and stop start traffic. It tends to kick in again about 10 seconds after moving off.

London tends to get rid of its older buses quicker than elsewhere and they usually end up in other operator fleets and the ones in the worst condition end up on my rail replacement bus service.  Sad
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« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2019, 01:48:05 pm »

Having recently driven brand new diesel buses with stop/start fitted for Reading Buses, I can confirm that the driver has no ability to override the feature. The stop/start would only occur with the doors open and doesn't work at the times when you want it to, a minute or two wait at a timing point for example. When it did occur it had the effect of unsettling the passengers who would come to the front to ask how long you would be waiting. You can of course still shut the engine of yourself while waiting, but the older the vehicle the less chance it may start again which may explain drivers leaving vehicles running. Reading buses also had hybrid buses as described above which didn't cut out with the exception of one vehicle, ex demonstrator 232. This vehicle, when working properly, was possibly the best bus the company had, certainly from a driving point of view. The engine would cut out often at almost every stop, sometimes before you had even come to a standstill. You could turn around at a terminus without the engine cutting in at all with careful throttle control. This was the closest thing to driving a modern trolleybus and the silence and ride quality was far superior to any diesel bus with a gearbox. It's a shame that replacing the batteries in the hybrids are so expensive.
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GBM
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« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2019, 04:44:21 pm »

Having recently driven brand new diesel buses with stop/start fitted for Reading Buses, I can confirm that the driver has no ability to override the feature. The stop/start would only occur with the doors open and doesn't work at the times when you want it to, a minute or two wait at a timing point for example. When it did occur it had the effect of unsettling the passengers who would come to the front to ask how long you would be waiting. You can of course still shut the engine of yourself while waiting, but the older the vehicle the less chance it may start again which may explain drivers leaving vehicles running.
Totally agree with that RG. However, it is possible on our new vehicles (& probably yours) the driver CAN manually override the start/stop with the doors open.  However, as this overrides a safety feature, it's best I don't how explain how... Many of our drivers know this.  Slightly speeds up the time stopped.
Yes, older vehicles you switch off in traffic at your peril, despite perhaps a very long stop.  Even with new vehicles it's best not to switch off in traffic just in case.
It's easy for an outsider to say "Come on driver, it's a new bus, it's bound to restart instantly".
Yeah, right. (Only been driving for 9 years, so what do I know)
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« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2019, 06:46:20 pm »

The manual override on the particular buses concerned can only occur after it's turned itself off by placing your foot back on the throttle and after a couple of seconds the motor will kick back in, this would provide a quicker getaway after the doors had closed and, more importantly, the heating would come back on! The Wrightbus StreetDeck are the vehicles in question and I couldn't tell you if the stop/start feature was aftermarket or not.
Cheers
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LiskeardRich
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« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2019, 07:04:06 pm »

Having recently driven brand new diesel buses with stop/start fitted for Reading Buses, I can confirm that the driver has no ability to override the feature. The stop/start would only occur with the doors open and doesn't work at the times when you want it to, a minute or two wait at a timing point for example. When it did occur it had the effect of unsettling the passengers who would come to the front to ask how long you would be waiting. You can of course still shut the engine of yourself while waiting, but the older the vehicle the less chance it may start again which may explain drivers leaving vehicles running.
Totally agree with that RG. However, it is possible on our new vehicles (& probably yours) the driver CAN manually override the start/stop with the doors open.  However, as this overrides a safety feature, it's best I don't how explain how... Many of our drivers know this.  Slightly speeds up the time stopped.
Yes, older vehicles you switch off in traffic at your peril, despite perhaps a very long stop.  Even with new vehicles it's best not to switch off in traffic just in case.
It's easy for an outsider to say "Come on driver, it's a new bus, it's bound to restart instantly".
Yeah, right. (Only been driving for 9 years, so what do I know)

I find a Trident quite a bit quicker at getaway from a stop. Take the 85 route for example, I find myself waiting time throughout the whole route when Iíve got a Trident, yet an MMC I normally find myself running late.
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