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Author Topic: The move from driving a car to using the bus  (Read 2167 times)
TonyK
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« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2019, 09:56:26 pm »


You can get a free bus pass in many areas at 60. 60 is not "elderly".....raise the age and/or means test it. There are a whole raft of benefits  (TV licence being another one, currently under review, Winter fuel payment etc) which are handed out without any consideration of means testing. Just think of the revenue that is being foregone due to this.

Ironically Prince Phillip may start using his now! 🙂

Not in my area, or I would be using one already, to the general benefit of the planet.

As for means testing government will move away from that wherever possible. I spent a very large part of my working life either administering means-tested benefits, or sorting things out when it didn't work, either because of an error on someone's part, or deliberate fraud. It is hugely expensive to administer, which is fine when thousands of pounds of annual benefits is concerned, less so when you might be looking at the cost of one bus trip a week. And it is a brave - or foolish - politician who seeks to aggravate the biggest growing cohort of voters, and the one most likely to actually vote. (This is why George Osborne handed responsibility for TV licences for the over-75s to the BBC, to be phased in by a couple of years after he left office, so he can't be blamed if they are scrapped, but that's another argument). The other arguments against means-testing - the elderly don't do forms so don't apply, they are less likely to use a computer, many have cognitive issues, I fought in the war, the fuel allowance money pays for itself in terms of fewer deaths in cold weather - are also valid.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 05:52:48 pm by Tony (Ex FT, N!) » Logged

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welshman
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« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2019, 09:57:00 pm »

The theory is fine, as is the theory of electric cars.  On Wednesday this week I have to attend an evening meeting 35 miles away and it won't finish before 21:00.  On Thursday, I'm 25 miles away for another evening meeting with a similar ending time.

By public transport  - 2 or 3 buses and two trains - I could get to these meetings in about 2.5 to 3 hours.    By public transport I could not get home before about 08:00 the following day at the earliest and could not start the journey before about 4 am.

So that's a car job - 35 mins each way mostly dual carriageway or motorway.

It will be both ways with lights on and a 700 foot climb at the end.  Would my notional electric car have enough in the battery?  I doubt it.  

Yes I can have a bus pass but there has to be a convenient bus.
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bignosemac
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« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2019, 10:14:35 pm »

Most modern fully electric cars can comfortably manage at least 150 miles on a full charge. Range isn't greatly affected by lighting and other car electrics such as audio/visual.

Heating and air conditioning are bigger power draws, and cold weather can affect the power draw from the batteries, but I think most latest model fully electric cars would easily manage a 70 mile round trip, fully charged, on a winter evening.

If your meeting locations have nearby charging points then even less range concern.
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Reginald25
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« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2019, 10:06:19 am »

Given the clear environmental benefits of public transport (yes I know some would dispute that), and the trivial cost of running a few buses compared to major government spending on infrastructure, I'd like to see the bus pass brought down even further. Overall the saving to the government would probably be significant. In fact lets go all the way and make bus travel free (or perhaps with just a peppercorn fare to stop trivial use). Everyone would benefit, even the few car drivers left would have a better journey. I realise I'm being controversial!
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LiskeardRich
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« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2019, 10:22:47 am »

A thought Iíve just had.
If the bus is running anyway itís surely better getting bums on seats of people who wouldnít use it if it wasnít free to them? Itís a few pence the operator otherwise wouldnít have had.
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welshman
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« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2019, 10:33:18 am »

Depends on your journey.  The NEDC cycle, used to measure consumption, is heavily biased towards urban stop-start low speed driving.  The journeys I describe are largely at 70 mph (or so).

Neither destination has a charging point within several miles.   Since I don't have an electric car, the issue is somewhat academic.  

My main point was that public transport to many of my destinations does not exist or is unreasonably slow or infrequent and not always daily.  

One regular 75 mile journey I make to Mid Wales would, according to Google Maps, require 5 changes of public transport and about 30 minutes on foot.  If I left at 08:30 tomorrow, I'd get there at about 14:45.   Allowing a couple of hours at my destination, it would take me until well into Wednesday to get back.   According to Traveline Cymru "Weíre sorry, no journeys were found for your selection."

If I went on Wednesday, there is no local bus to the destination which would enable me to get there the same day.   So I'll stick with the petrol (not diesel) for the time being, thank you.  I wouldn't want to be out of electricity halfway across the Brecon Beacons.

(The destination is not the top of a mountain - it's a small village about 10 miles south east of Aberystwyth.)



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grahame
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« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2019, 12:14:51 pm »

Depends on your journey.  The NEDC cycle, used to measure consumption, is heavily biased towards urban stop-start low speed driving.  The journeys I describe are largely at 70 mph (or so).

Neither destination has a charging point within several miles.   Since I don't have an electric car, the issue is somewhat academic.  

....

(The destination is not the top of a mountain - it's a small village about 10 miles south east of Aberystwyth.)


Many (most?) electric cars also have a cable with an end like this ... not the fastest of charges, but it does help you get out of a hole.  Perhaps we should have an "electric car" thread, as they are coming common but knowledge is patchy

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TonyK
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« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2019, 02:16:26 pm »

Research has shown that fear of an electric car running out of power on a long journey is a fairly large factor in deciding whether or not to buy / use one, even when the car in question will manage the journey easily.
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LiskeardRich
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« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2019, 02:46:26 pm »

Electric car is out of the question unless Iím guaranteed parking outside my house. Sometimes end up 250+ yards away
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2019, 04:30:08 pm »

Perhaps we should have an "electric car" thread, as they are coming common but knowledge is patchy

We do!

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18522.msg225620#msg225620
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TonyK
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« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2019, 05:54:35 pm »

And at least one of our members has an electric car!
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2019, 08:22:20 pm »

We have a plug-in hybrid, which around town has many but not all of the advantages of an electric car. It has a pure-electric range of around 24 miles, which most days is more than we need, and we charge at home and generally set off fully charged. For comparison, the Hyundai Kona Electric (a pure BEV) has a WLTP range of 279 miles, and can be rapid-charged to 80% capacity in 75 minutes.

For a long time I found our car's winter habit of switching on its petrol engine in order to provide heat for the air-conditioning irritating, until it dawned on me that it makes perfect sense - a petrol engine is far more efficient at making heat than it is at propelling a vehicle along, so use that to heat the car and the electric motor to propel it... Wink

Plug-in hybrids are neither fish, fowl or good red herring, but have a role in the transition to battery-electric vehicles:

1. They salve the nerves of those for whom running short of amp-hours is more worrying than running short of liquid fuel.
2. They provide, for now, ongoing employment for people involved in the manufacture, distribution and installation of exhaust systems, cam belts, valve guides, lubricants, radiator hoses, gearboxes and hundreds of other moving parts, consumables and peripherals that keep internal combustion engines running. These people will soon find that their jobs join postilions, lampies, gong farmers and bargee's mates as historical footnotes.
3. They plug (sic) the gap while the charging infrastructure is developed.

Few things in this world are inevitable, but the demise of the ICE-powered vehicle is as close as it gets because electric motors - whatever means is used to store the energy that powers them - are plainly superior.
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grahame
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« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2019, 11:43:56 pm »

We have a plug-in hybrid, which around town has many but not all of the advantages of an electric car. It has a pure-electric range of around 24 miles, which most days is more than we need, and we charge at home and generally set off fully charged. For comparison, the Hyundai Kona Electric (a pure BEV) has a WLTP range of 279 miles, and can be rapid-charged to 80% capacity in 75 minutes.

[snip]


I have opened a member's poll in "Frequent Posters" for our - err - frequent posters to give a picture of how our members get around when they're not on public transport.  I'm going to quote the above, and unsnipped, over there - a very worthwhile discussion but perhaps it will move into comments we may want to keep more private

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=21049.0
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TonyK
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« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2019, 12:24:27 pm »

I don't think that our vehicular habits need to be a matter of great secrecy, grahame, and there is a good discussion starting here.

For me, the LPG car was probably the cleanest I ever had. That was a company car. The blurb suggested that one should drive about a third of the time on petrol - a mere flick of a switch was all that was needed - but all I paid for was fuel. I filled the petrol tank on my way home from France, and that lasted 2 years. The down side was that LPG burns hotter than petrol, apparently, and when I began to experience trouble, at about 85,000 miles, the garage told me that holes had burned into the top suface of the pistons. The lease company wouldn't pay to fix it given the mileage, and in any case, I was about to change jobs, to one wich wouldn't provide a vehicle.

I then had a petrol car, bought second hand at 28,000 miles, for 3 years, maybe four.  That gave me untold trouble later in life, when the instrument panel stopped working, but I used my satnav to get some idea of my speed and carried a can of petrol in the boot, being utterly surprised to find that a duff speedo does not preclude a MOT, until taking advantage of the scrappage scheme to buy a new diesel car. In three years, I changed one light bulb and had no other issues, so traded it in for another new diesel. Almost 3 years ago, I could see the way the wind was blowing, and changed to petrol. At the time, diesel was 2p per litre cheaper than petrol. Yesterday, it was 10p dearer.

I'm going to keep this one, in the hope of a government incentive to switch to electric in a few years time. But by then, I shall have my bus pass if they still exist. I may instead take the decision to do without entirely. That choice would be easier to make were I still living in Bristol, but even out here in the sticks there are bus services to take me to Taunton, Tiverton, Exeter etc, and Tiverton Parkway is just over 3 miles distant. Arriving back there after 7pm would mean a taxi, but the overall cost over a 12-month period would be lower.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 10:54:35 am by Tony (Ex FT, N!) » Logged

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CyclingSid
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« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2019, 05:30:21 pm »

When the whole saga about the gentleman in Norfolk being encouraged to hand in his licence started, I thought about when I lived a few miles down the road from him. There was one bus a week into Fakenham on market day morning, and a very merry bus back in the afternoon.

That area was not unique, and recent media coverage suggests it is going to get worse. By coincidence today I was told that Reading Buses get 80p for older persons pass trip. Gone up from 60p a few years ago. In a place like Reading that might be sustainable with all the other fare payers, but probably a very different situation in rural areas.
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