'We're not moving' - when reserving a train seat goes wrong

[whole diary]

[broadgage]

I have experienced a similar situation at least twice on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) services, as they were still known at the time.

On one occasion the train manager felt unable to intervene, so being reluctant to give the usurper a good thump I had to stand to Taunton. Excellent for the full first class fare of about £150.
On another journey no on board staff were seen, another £150 to stand.

The situation has got worse with the introduction of the new shorter trains, and as a result I now travel much less.

On one recent trip from Taunton, the train on which I had booked was half length and clearly grossly overcrowded, knowing that reservations are voided and that first is de-facto declassified on half length trains I let the train go and awaited the next one.
On this following service I was "fined" a substantial sum for not having a valid ticket, mine being valid only on the booked train.
Overcrowding has been regularly discussed on these forums, and advocates of the rail industry, or employees therein, have stated that "passengers have a choice, to not board a train that is overcrowded"
I would be interested to hear the views, as to whether passengers who make such a choice should be "fined" or not.

[Timmer]

On one recent trip from Taunton, the train on which I had booked was half length and clearly grossly overcrowded, knowing that reservations are voided and that first is de-facto declassified on half length trains I let the train go and awaited the next one.
On this following service I was "fined" a substantial sum for not having a valid ticket, mine being valid only on the booked train.
Overcrowding has been regularly discussed on these forums, and advocates of the rail industry, or employees therein, have stated that "passengers have a choice, to not board a train that is overcrowded"
I would be interested to hear the views, as to whether passengers who make such a choice should be "fined" or not.

Happened to me, had Advance tickets booked in 1st. 5 car vice 10 showed up, absolutely rammed. One portion of 1st in the composite coach was declassified leaving just the portion next to the kitchen for everyone to squeeze in with four more stations before London still to come. Refused to travel on this train so waited for the next one half an hour later, a nine car set with 1st virtually empty. Explained to the TM^‡(resolve) the situation with the previous train and he was more than happy for us to travel on his train. The 1st class host was amazing too so we had a lovely journey up to London. How it should be.

Had we been "fined" I'd have paid up and taken it up with GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) to claim the money back. If they or their supplier (Hitachi) fail to provide the paid for service, why should I have to suffer a second rate service arriving in London stressed out? Not unreasonable is it?

[broadgage]

One extra coach on every voyager(with ole pantograph) could have been paid for by central government with the B**** advertising budget...

Yes, or even a battery vehicle. Battery charged by the existing engines when spare power is available.

[TaplowGreen]

Upgrading the customers who had reserved seats is a good result for them but sends out all the wrong messages to those who have selfishly chosen to occupy seats reserved by others and refused to move - they'll feel they can remain there without any action being taken against them other than possibly the disapproval of others.

Surely it's part of the TM^‡(resolve)'s job to enforce this, not just give up and walk away?

I'm sure it used to say something on the back of ticket reservations about there being a penalty for occupying a someone else's reserved seats and/or removing the label?

[grahame]

Giving in to those who abuse the system with no more than the ire of their fellow passengers, which they may be too thick-skinned (or thick) to notice, is not a solution beyond very quickly defusing a situation. Long term it brings the system as it stands into disrepute so that even more people will ignore it.   Having said which, the reservation system isn't exactly a glowing example of how things should be done, is it?

Another TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) giving up on reservations - from Examiner Live

Train passengers travelling between Huddersfield and Manchester can no longer pre-book a seat - due to the amount of drunken ale trail rows over reservations on a weekend.

Transpennine Express (TPE^▸ (Trans Pennine Express)) has banned passengers booking a seat on journeys at the weekend, after numerous reports of antisocial behaviour and rowdy disorder on the trains.

[Thatcham Crossing]

Many years ago I took an overnight train in Germany, with seats reserved, between Gutersloh and Berlin.

Myself and my (UK^▸ (United Kingdom) Military) mates found our seats occupied, and politely asked (in basic German) for the middle-aged female occupants to move (having showed them our reservation paperwork).

They refused to do so, so off I went off to find the conductor. He told them, in no uncertain terms, that they needed to move. But they still didn't.

Probably 10-15 minutes later we pull into the next station. Polizei board and remove the offending Frau's.

We tried not to smile at them too much as they left.

[plymothian]

And now another one.

Opinions on this one? https://twitter.com/RoadsignReport1/status/1190280703419834369

[sikejsudjek3]

And now another one.

Opinions on this one? https://twitter.com/RoadsignReport1/status/1190280703419834369

If he didn't have a reservation then he should calm down. No right to those seats. 

[TaplowGreen]

And now another one.

Opinions on this one? https://twitter.com/RoadsignReport1/status/1190280703419834369

If he didn't have a reservation then he should calm down. No right to those seats. 

Yeah it's not the same - no right to expect courtesy these days unfortunately!

[Henry]

  Don't same countries have a policy that unless you book a seat
  in advance you do not travel ?
 
  Perhaps that is now the way forward, particularly on 'Inter-City' routes.
  Although I suppose the guard would then have to 'earn his money' regulating this
  policy.

[Surrey 455]

And now another one.

Opinions on this one? https://twitter.com/RoadsignReport1/status/1190280703419834369

Twitter says "Sorry, that page doesn’t exist!"

[grahame]

And now another one.

Opinions on this one? https://twitter.com/RoadsignReport1/status/1190280703419834369

Twitter says "Sorry, that page doesn’t exist!"

Ah - the danger of linking to a page under someone else's control.    I took a look earlier (when it was visible) and I suspect that the original poster reconsidered his message.

As a general comment - Highly frustrating to have your train (with reserved seats for yourself and offspring) cancelled - but that does not give you the right to demand other get up from their seats for you on the ovecrowded replacement  train that you've taken to make your journey in lieu.   You may have a claim to refund / compensation from the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) who's train was cancelled, but having found a single seat in the replacement train for your daughter, you cannot normally request / demand / expect the person already seated in the adjacent seat for a long journey to give it up for you.   Clearly there may be exceptions - if you are disabled / pregnant  / need a priority seat for medical reasons, or if the person seated next to your daughter is a rail associated person travelling on a duty pass which includes a condition of issue that seats must be given up if required.

[plymothian]

I was rather under the influence when I saw that twitter post (and to be honest still am folllowing all the early rugby kick offs this weekend).

The "problem" was that that the gentlemen pictured refused to move so the daughter could sit next to the mother after their train got cancelled.  IMO^▸ (in my opinion) the twitter rant is totally unjustified for the fact that the poster's train was cancelled and although the daughter was unable to sit immediately adjacent to the mother, she was still in eyesight. However, one of the gentlemen shamed could have swapped seats in that instance.

But what got my back up was more how easy it is to social media shame - a follow up post critised one of the guys for falling asleep - and the general attitude to seating on trains.

And @Henry regarding the 'you can only travel if you have a reservation' arguement is always couneracted by asking the person complaining "if you couldn't have got a reservation on this train and the next available is in 5 days time, what would you have done" for example?