Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 15:35 29 Mar 2024
* Delays at Dover as millions begin Easter getaway
* A view from inside ship that hit Baltimore bridge
- Attempted murder charge after man stabbed on train
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
29th Mar (1913)
Foundation of National Union or Railwaymen (*)

Train RunningCancelled
15:14 Swindon to Westbury
15:22 Newbury to Bedwyn
15:28 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
15:50 Bedwyn to Newbury
15:54 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
16:15 Newbury to Bedwyn
16:23 Westbury to Swindon
16:55 Bedwyn to Newbury
17:24 Newbury to Bedwyn
17:36 Swindon to Westbury
18:04 Bedwyn to Newbury
18:26 Newbury to Bedwyn
18:37 Westbury to Swindon
18:55 Bedwyn to Newbury
19:02 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads
19:24 Newbury to Bedwyn
19:55 Bedwyn to Newbury
20:13 Swindon to Westbury
20:49 Newbury to Bedwyn
21:16 Westbury to Swindon
21:16 Bedwyn to Newbury
21:53 Newbury to Bedwyn
22:25 Bedwyn to Newbury
22:30 Swindon to Westbury
22:47 Newbury to Bedwyn
Short Run
13:10 Gloucester to Weymouth
13:42 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington
13:55 Paignton to London Paddington
14:36 London Paddington to Paignton
15:28 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare
15:42 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington
16:35 London Paddington to Plymouth
16:50 Plymouth to London Paddington
17:03 London Paddington to Penzance
17:36 London Paddington to Plymouth
18:03 London Paddington to Penzance
18:29 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
18:36 London Paddington to Plymouth
19:04 Paignton to London Paddington
20:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
21:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
23:17 Bedwyn to Reading
Delayed
10:04 London Paddington to Penzance
10:20 Penzance to London Paddington
12:03 London Paddington to Penzance
12:15 Penzance to London Paddington
13:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
13:15 Plymouth to London Paddington
13:50 London Paddington to Great Malvern
14:03 London Paddington to Penzance
14:15 Penzance to London Paddington
15:03 London Paddington to Penzance
15:15 Plymouth to London Paddington
16:03 London Paddington to Penzance
16:15 Penzance to London Paddington
17:29 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington
etc
PollsOpen and recent polls
Closed 2024-03-25 Easter Escape - to where?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 29, 2024, 15:40:35 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[211] 2024 - Service update and amendment log, Swindon <-> Westbury...
[66] Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption el...
[49] Who needs a travel agent these days?
[36] Travel for free on the m2 metrobus - Bristol - 4,5,6 April 202...
[28] would you like your own LIVE train station departure board?
[26] West Wiltshire Bus Changes April 2024
 
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6
  Print  
Author Topic: New Station for Shepton Mallet?  (Read 10931 times)
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40692



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #45 on: March 04, 2019, 13:35:30 »

Oxford and Cambridge could be expected to generate a significant number of journeys from one to the other (and from both to London, the three together supposedly making the golden triangle that will rescue the whole country) as they're centres of similar types of economy. Is the same true of Bristol/Bath and Bournemouth/Poole? Maybe, I don't know.

Yes, they're not the same - the main similarity is that they were once connected by cross-country routes with moderate traffic levels. However:

  • A Bristol - Bournemouth route would link WECA» (West of England Combined Authority - about)'s a population of around 900,000 with BCP's 380,000. For comparison, Oxford has 240,000 and Cambridge 280,000.
  • Bournemouth, like Bristol, has a strong financial service sector and (I will admit that I am surprised to read) a thriving youth culture. Unlike Bristol, it has poor transport links with its hinterland.

Who's for 'Western Powerhouse Rail'?


The models for the North and the Midlands are indeed being rolled out across the rest of England.  Problem (in my view) is that we're likely to end up with too many of them meeting in our patch; services that cross areas are likely to be more complex to arrange and generate less interest from the 'powerhouse' boards than those contained within a single 'powerhouse'.

South West Peninsular (includes Shepton Mallet where this thread starts - and St Austell)
Western Gateway (includes Bristol)
England's Economic Heartland (includes Swindon - and Cambridge)
Transport for the South East (includes Southampton - and Sheerness)

A couple of attachments - one showing a fifth area (including Bournemouth) and the other showing the Western Gateway comprising a main area and an isolated island which in transport terms seems very peculiar.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
Red Squirrel
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5191


There are some who call me... Tim


View Profile
« Reply #46 on: March 04, 2019, 14:09:52 »

The first map, with BCP in an exclave of Western Gateway reminiscent of English Maelor, may indicate that it's not just me thinking that Bournemouth gravitates towards WECA» (West of England Combined Authority - about)...

Logged

Things take longer to happen than you think they will, and then they happen faster than you thought they could.
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40692



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #47 on: March 04, 2019, 15:31:07 »

The first map, with BCP in an exclave of Western Gateway reminiscent of English Maelor, may indicate that it's not just me thinking that Bournemouth gravitates towards WECA» (West of England Combined Authority - about)...

Sadly leads to all sorts of quirks and jokes .. "Western Gateposts" with traffic from the south east sneaking in to the south west along the Ringwood corridor clse to the Bournemouth Redoubt.   I recall "Part of Flint" on old county maps, hearing about Port Roberts and that Doncaster is part of Scotalnd - I really hope we don't end up trying to build our future on fragmented oddities.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4256


View Profile
« Reply #48 on: March 04, 2019, 18:34:40 »

Which is all interesting, but the question remains, how many people want to travel from Bristol to Bournemouth or vice versa? There must be figures for ticket sales on rail and bus, perhaps harder to estimate car traffic. Of course there are all the inbetween places to factor in as well; Shepton Mallet might be a destination in itself, for outlets (and maybe the Babycham!)
Logged

Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40692



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #49 on: March 04, 2019, 18:56:55 »

Which is all interesting, but the question remains, how many people want to travel from Bristol to Bournemouth or vice versa? There must be figures for ticket sales on rail and bus ...

I'm sure there are figures - but it's a s***ing awful journey by rail from 'here' (Melksham) - more or less half way along the corridor - to the extent that even those of us who are pro-public-transport tend to drive.

Melksham to Southampton - off peak day return £24.20, by road 53 miles, 85 minutes
Melksham to Bournemouth - off peak return (no day returns) £44.20, by road 60 miles, 100 minutes

Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
bradshaw
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1450



View Profile
« Reply #50 on: March 04, 2019, 19:42:26 »

There is a good reference book that debates the closures and looks at whether routes could be opened. The S & D is on p52.

‘Disconnected’ - broken links in Britain’s rail policy by Chris Austin and Richard Faulkner OPC 2015
Logged
eightonedee
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1532



View Profile
« Reply #51 on: March 04, 2019, 21:59:45 »

Quote
Problem (in my view) is that we're likely to end up with too many of them meeting in our patch; services that cross areas are likely to be more complex to arrange and generate less interest from the 'powerhouse' boards than those contained within a single 'powerhouse'.

South West Peninsular (includes Shepton Mallet where this thread starts - and St Austell)
Western Gateway (includes Bristol)
England's Economic Heartland (includes Swindon - and Cambridge)
Transport for the South East (includes Southampton - and Sheerness)

A couple of attachments - one showing a fifth area (including Bournemouth) and the other showing the Western Gateway comprising a main area and an isolated island which in transport terms seems very peculiar.

Absolutely - it makes no sense (for example) to put Berks and Oxon into two different areas. There is too much compartmentalisation creeping into transport policy - the CaMKOx corridor is another example. Someone needs to ensure that the national network works and connects. There is no point in splitting the Thames Valley apart, nor (for example) South Yorkshire, Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire. Networks not slogans!
Logged
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4256


View Profile
« Reply #52 on: March 04, 2019, 22:29:01 »

Which is all interesting, but the question remains, how many people want to travel from Bristol to Bournemouth or vice versa? There must be figures for ticket sales on rail and bus ...

I'm sure there are figures - but it's a s***ing awful journey by rail from 'here' (Melksham) - more or less half way along the corridor - to the extent that even those of us who are pro-public-transport tend to drive.

Melksham to Southampton - off peak day return £24.20, by road 53 miles, 85 minutes
Melksham to Bournemouth - off peak return (no day returns) £44.20, by road 60 miles, 100 minutes


From Bristol I'm seeing £43.10 off-peak return, £48.90 anytime, which seems less variation than on many routes. Although for the 0600 arriving 0915 they want £254.  Shocked Two and a half to three hours, quite a bit of which is spent waiting at Southampton. Does anyone want to estimate a journey time on a resurrected S&D (Somerset and Dorset Joint Railway) or similar?
Logged

Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40692



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #53 on: March 05, 2019, 08:46:01 »

To the south of Bristol and Bath is the hilly Mendip country - never as developed as the valley of the Avon which passes through Bristol and Bath, but never the less of sufficient importance for three railway lines to have penetrated the terrain - south from Yatton via Winscombe, south from Bristol viaPensford, and south from Bath via Midford.  Alas, all three were "middle of the road" lines - sufficient to be built, but insufficient to survive the ravages of the "Beeching Axe" era.  Today, if you want to head south from Bristol you head west then south via Weston-super-mare to Taunton, and if you want to head south from Bath you head east before turning south east via Trowbridge to Westbury.  And the great wedge of land in between has no rail transport.  But that great wedge of land is home to a number of communities - some substantial in size - which look towards Bristol and Bath as their regional centres, and the questions are asked "could we be (re)connected to the rail network" and "could we have passenger trains".

So where are the population / (rail) travel potential hot spots in the wedge?
Shepton Mallet * Radstock / Midsomer Norton * Wells * Glastonbury * Street * Cheddar * Bristol Airport * Whitchurch / Pensford * Blagdon

If you consider services through the wedge, there's other hotspots on the southern fringe (at or beyond the east - west line from Westbury to Taunton) who have significant desires for excellent and more direct travel opportunities to Bristol and Bath:
Frome * Wincanton * Yeovil * Blandford Forum * Ringwood * Somerton / Langport

Looking right down towards the South Coat, you have two further east-west lines - the Salisbury to Exeter line, and then the main line along the coast from Southampton in the east to Weymouth in the west - but again little in between so that rail journeys to the north are doglegs at the best from:
Poole * Bournemouth * Christchurch * Swanage * Lymington
All rail connected for sure but, as I wrote to someone yesterday, "Bournemouth - I would drive"





* None of the three lines I mentioned earlier could be trivially re-opened along its previous route.

* Other old lines in the area might be re-opened to passenger trains slighly more easily, but might not go the right places.

* Heavy / complex engineering may be easier but very pricey these days; gradients are not the big problem to trains they once were

* The potential travel hotspots to Bath / Bristol that I mentioned do not fall into a neat line

* Other traffics even beyond the area mentioned might be useful - for example Southampton port traffic

* Providing stations / link lines to the Westbury - Taunton line for towns close to it wouldn't give a quick direct journey to the desired locations of Bath / Bristol

* There isn't a single commuter service from Westbury / Frome / Bruton / Castle Cary into Taunton which may be indicative of the lack of traffic in that direction (but, yes, I don't know what the latent demand is)

* Bringing a new line into Bath could lead to capacity issues on the remaining Bristol to Bath line as many people would be headed for Bristol

* As we move to(wards) Sub-regional transport bodies like "Transport for the North", the area that we're talking about straddles borders

* There are few if any marginal constituencies between the two major parties in the area that would benefit from better connectivity

* An extra line heading south from the Bristol / Bath area would be unlikely to have through London services so not effect Westminster.

Posting this initially as an informing piece below the "Station for Shepton Mallet" thread ... happy to split the thread should that turn out to be wise.   Thank you to Richard Fairhust for his permsission to use his excellent Adlestrop Maps to illustrate this piece..  I have scaled the maps slighly for consistency with our formats - if you load the images in your browser though they'll be full size for you.

Throwing a stone in the pond I have described ...  Exisiting track Bristol Temple Meads, Bedminster, Parson Street, Long Ashton, Flax Bourton, New cut / tunnel Lulsgate, Blagdon, Cheddar Reopened Wookey, Wells, Shepton Mallet New curve to other line to reopen Cole Junction, Wincanton, Templecombe, Blandford, Broadstone, Poole. ... Stands back and expects alternative suggestions via the Radstock area, and around the north of Bournemouth.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
Red Squirrel
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5191


There are some who call me... Tim


View Profile
« Reply #54 on: March 05, 2019, 10:10:50 »

Expanding on the idea of a though route based on the North Somerset from Bristol to Radstock, linked to the Somerset and Dorset to Bournemouth:

The first 25km from Bristol - Radstock would probably be largely single track with at best a line speed of 80km/h. There would be potential for an onward link to Frome here for local services (I'll leave it to others to speculate whether a Bristol - Frome service should terminate there or go further); such a local service would probably justify adding stops at Brislington, Whitchurch and Clutton. This section could potentially be opened as a first phase of the through route.

A 'fast' service on this section would presumably take around 20 mins; a stopper maybe 30 mins.

Norton - Bournemouth is 90km or thereabouts, and I'm guessing you'd probably want to stop all trains at Shepton Mallet, Cole/Castle Cary (some rerouting needed here), Templecombe, Sturminster Newton, Blandford and Poole. In BR (British Rail(ways)) days, the line speed was 70mph (about 110km/h); would it be pollyannaish to think that a rebuilt line could sustain 140kh/m? if so, 90 minutes from Norton to Bournemouth ought to be achievable.

So let's say Bristol - Bournemouth could be achieved in around 1 hr 50 mins... that would be almost an hour quicker than the current rail journey, and 20 mins quicker than driving.
Logged

Things take longer to happen than you think they will, and then they happen faster than you thought they could.
eXPassenger
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 547


View Profile
« Reply #55 on: March 05, 2019, 18:04:06 »

This looks to me like the ultimate crayonista's dream.

Grahame's 'solution' of a line from Flax Bourton to Cheddar requires extensive tunnelling, a funicular or taking over the Cheddar Gorge.  Last Wednesday I ascended the S face of the Mendips there and it is STEEP.  There is lost trackbed through to Shepton.  I do not know how much trackbed has been lost from the S&D (Somerset and Dorset Joint Railway) to Poole.

Red Squirrel's suggestion will need to tunnel out of Bristol to Whitchurch due to all the developments on the trackbed.  It would also be necessary to include reversing time at Radstock when switching from the North Somerset to the S&D.

Do not forget the time it is taking to reopen the Portishead line which has an existing trackbed, much of which is used for freight.
Logged
Red Squirrel
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5191


There are some who call me... Tim


View Profile
« Reply #56 on: March 05, 2019, 21:27:32 »

Red Squirrel's suggestion will need to tunnel out of Bristol to Whitchurch due to all the developments on the trackbed.  It would also be necessary to include reversing time at Radstock when switching from the North Somerset to the S&D (Somerset and Dorset Joint Railway).

Whilst freely acknowledging that this is crayonism, I feel the need to point out that the bulk of the B&NS route out of Bristol is very much not built on - the 2.25km section running parallel to Sturminster Road, between West Town Lane and Staunton Lane, is clear; further in it would be possible to sidestep the development at Hither Bath Bridge (where the embankment has been removed) and there is also a fairly clear route along the old alignment, or close to it, from Brislington to, er, North Somerset Jct. The housing development on the trackbed at Whitchurch would be more problematic, but I would suggest that here a bulldozer would probably fit the bill better than a TBM.

As to Norton Radstock; I am suggesting a curve (and new station) near the BANES offices at Somerville Road/Radstock Road, rather than a reversal.

Crayons back in box.
Logged

Things take longer to happen than you think they will, and then they happen faster than you thought they could.
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40692



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #57 on: March 05, 2019, 22:05:09 »

This looks to me like the ultimate crayonista's dream.

Grahame's 'solution' of a line from Flax Bourton to Cheddar requires extensive tunnelling ...

Indeed.  I put that in as I was writing it.  But then trimmed back that part of the post and it got edited out.  Obviously unusual - does anyone know of any examples of where a railway line arrives underneath an airport in a tunnel ?  Grin
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
eXPassenger
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 547


View Profile
« Reply #58 on: March 05, 2019, 22:54:52 »

Red Squirrel's suggestion will need to tunnel out of Bristol to Whitchurch due to all the developments on the trackbed.  It would also be necessary to include reversing time at Radstock when switching from the North Somerset to the S&D (Somerset and Dorset Joint Railway).

Whilst freely acknowledging that this is crayonism, I feel the need to point out that the bulk of the B&NS route out of Bristol is very much not built on - the 2.25km section running parallel to Sturminster Road, between West Town Lane and Staunton Lane, is clear; further in it would be possible to sidestep the development at Hither Bath Bridge (where the embankment has been removed) and there is also a fairly clear route along the old alignment, or close to it, from Brislington to, er, North Somerset Jct. The housing development on the trackbed at Whitchurch would be more problematic, but I would suggest that here a bulldozer would probably fit the bill better than a TBM.

As to Norton Radstock; I am suggesting a curve (and new station) near the BANES offices at Somerville Road/Radstock Road, rather than a reversal.

Crayons back in box.

I agree that there are available sections, however the Northern start is now blocked by Avon Meads, the A4320 and a Sainsburys.  You then have the edge of a Tesco before the relatively clear section.

You could connect the lines through the BANES location.
Logged
ellendune
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4452


View Profile
« Reply #59 on: March 06, 2019, 08:24:12 »

Indeed.  I put that in as I was writing it.  But then trimmed back that part of the post and it got edited out.  Obviously unusual - does anyone know of any examples of where a railway line arrives underneath an airport in a tunnel ?  Grin

I think they have one at a small airport somewhere in West London! Smiley
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page