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Author Topic: Timetable and other upcoming changes - overview (from GWR) last Monday  (Read 8635 times)
grahame
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« on: February 28, 2019, 02:32:11 pm »

Overview summary from GWR (Great Western Railway) (Central Area) timetable meeting last Monday

These are the opening headlines from GWR

End of April - last HST (High Speed Train) to Bristol (London to Bristol full length ones?)
No HSTs from London from May (timetable change?)
Bedwyn service will require 4 units / 4 turbos release west. R&D on camera changes - aim is May, note aim not schedule - depends how the R&D goes.
Westbury Car Park - ready to go, just awaiting paperwork

May 2019 - one more Cheltenham - Paddington (service, round trip or diagram?)
Every half hour in Cornwall
More 2+4 HSTs from May, releasing units.

December 2019 - implementing SLC3 fundamentals - considerable main line speed ups
Have to retime other services
"Do our best on connections"
"Bid next month then see hot it fits with other TOCs (Train Operating Company) and freight"
"We have some key aspirations"

No proposals / consultations / draft timetables for weekends (happen without consultation?)
Things still not right "will be able to chip away" ... and at May 2020, etc

From the Bristol Area, SevernsideCRP made strong inputs and representations on some aspects. FoSBR» (Friends of Suburban Bristol Railways - site) also present, as were WECA» (West of England Combined Authority - about) and various local authority representatives who - however - were more listening than commenting.  I will solicit a report / follow up on that

From the heart of Wessex area - note "heart" with a small h - Bristol to Portsmouth, Bristol to Swindon, Swindon to Westbury, Berks and Hants intermediate services included, many points (re)raised that had been raised at previous meeting on 18th July last. Active issues raised by myself and by TransWilts - BaNES and Wiltshire local authorities present, again more listening than commenting. I will follow up on these in the next 36 hours.

I understand there was an east timetable meeting a couple of weeks ago and there is also a west one in the cycle - not sure if that has happened or not.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2019, 02:55:03 pm »

There was an East meeting a couple of weeks ago - but were asked not to go public on the offer - NR» (Network Rail - home page) may put the kibosh on any of the bid.
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grahame
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« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2019, 03:57:00 pm »

There was an East meeting a couple of weeks ago - but were asked not to go public on the offer - NR» (Network Rail - home page) may put the kibosh on any of the bid.

I was surprised that no such request was made at the Central meeting - but then feedback I hear from the East and about the plans there are much more positive than feedback in the middle area where we have some difficult decisions to make because the bid is not a step forwards, nor is in just changes that leave the quality alone.
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RichardB
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« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2019, 05:37:27 pm »

The West timetable meeting was at the end of last month, Graham.  There will be additional Cornish main line trains from May, but the full half hourly service won't come in until December.
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eightonedee
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« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2019, 10:14:49 pm »

Quote
There was an East meeting a couple of weeks ago - but were asked not to go public on the offer - NR» (Network Rail - home page) may put the kibosh on any of the bid.

Disappointing that they could not be open about this. Even if there were concerns about NR's attitude, it would have been nice to know what they have in mind, and also to have something we can hold NR to account for (or it least enquire why they cannot oblige) if it does not happen.
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grahame
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« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2019, 10:27:40 pm »

Quote
There was an East meeting a couple of weeks ago - but were asked not to go public on the offer - NR» (Network Rail - home page) may put the kibosh on any of the bid.

Disappointing that they could not be open about this. Even if there were concerns about NR's attitude, it would have been nice to know what they have in mind, and also to have something we can hold NR to account for (or it least enquire why they cannot oblige) if it does not happen.

We (the community "trustees") are put in a very difficult position where there are significant negative elements in the proposals - do we say nothing and brace for any problems, do we work quietly to see if we can get things tweaked to make them new service as good as we can through that route, do we quietly share our concerns with the MPs (Member of Parliament), do we [insert other option]. That's a conundrum I'm fighting with at the moment, and I know that I am not alone in having such a conundrum.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2019, 10:33:55 pm by grahame » Logged

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Timmer
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« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2019, 06:28:54 am »

Disappointing that they could not be open about this. Even if there were concerns about NR» (Network Rail - home page)'s attitude, it would have been nice to know what they have in mind, and also to have something we can hold NR to account for (or it least enquire why they cannot oblige) if it does not happen.
Totally agree, other franchises major timetable recasts have been made public well in advance to give a chance for the public, the people who actually use the services, chance to see what changes are coming and the chance to provide feedback.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2019, 11:43:16 am »

Graham -

The second option in your list is probably the current way to go. If you have access to a good timetable guru, that would help also. Those that understand the nuances of timetabling....
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CMRail
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« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2019, 08:05:41 pm »

May 2019 - one more Cheltenham - Paddington (service, round trip or diagram?)

Let’s hope this is the 16:42 that was planned for May 2016!
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We should be aiming towards a country where no matter where you are you can get around all day with an easy to use, affordable and modern transport system.
broadgage
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« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2019, 12:11:35 pm »

A cynic might suspect that the new shorter trains are here to stay, but that many of the additional services that were intended to offset the reduced capacity per train "cant be delivered for a few more years"
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
grahame
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« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2019, 12:44:33 pm »

Graham -

The second option in your list is probably the current way to go. If you have access to a good timetable guru, that would help also. Those that understand the nuances of timetabling....

That was certainly the way to go - and we went that way - last summer for the previous meeting on 18th July 2018.  Concerns were logged, but it seemed last Monday that they had been more used to help uncover which of the changes is likely to cause customers problems or disappointments, and which are likely to be accepted or even welcomed, rather than to make any positive changes.  Feels like we've wasted half a year and moved from "it's very early - these are draft" to "it's too late to do much.

There are some improvements for 2020 over 2019. Sadly in the Bristol and Wiltshire areas, they are outweighed by changes that are going to be real issues, and inflamed by the running of services which because of other changes will be carrying fresh air.

I remain in the difficult position outlined earlier
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grahame
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« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2019, 01:01:02 pm »

A cynic might suspect that the new shorter trains are here to stay, but that many of the additional services that were intended to offset the reduced capacity per train "cant be delivered for a few more years"

Ear to the ground tells me that London express to Plymouth will be hourly from December,  London semifast to Exeter will be every 2 hours, services through Cornwall every half hour.  Not sure on exact percentages, but in each of those three cases it's a stepping up of the service.  Where there's a significant step up - as on the Cornish main line - with four trains over a period of 2 hours rather than two - I don't feel it's unreasonable for the new services to average shorter.  For example, if an 8 car plus a 3 car over 2 hours are replaced by a 5 car, 2 x 4 cars, and a 3 car it would look not unreasonable.   Of course if traffic grows because the service is so much better ...

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jamestheredengine
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« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2019, 07:39:06 pm »

Any hope for getting Swansea up to 2tph in the pm peak? The current situation with short turns at Cardiff arriving at 1622 and 1723, where they'd be just about to be getting very busy indeed if they continued west, is absolutely ridiculous. That it currently goes up to 2tph after the pm peak is even more mad.
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paul7575
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« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2019, 08:03:53 pm »

Any hope for getting Swansea up to 2tph in the pm peak? The current situation with short turns at Cardiff arriving at 1622 and 1723, where they'd be just about to be getting very busy indeed if they continued west, is absolutely ridiculous. That it currently goes up to 2tph after the pm peak is even more mad.
The 2015 GW (Great Western) stakeholder brief did show peak variations including 3 tph from/to South Wales in the peaks, of which Swansea gets the extra service.  How long these peak periods last, (am up and pm down), didn’t seem to be explicitly stated.   The other point of course, is that they’ll presumably be defining the peak from a Paddington perspective.

Paul
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grahame
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« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2019, 12:39:04 am »

Any hope for getting Swansea up to 2tph in the pm peak? The current situation with short turns at Cardiff arriving at 1622 and 1723, where they'd be just about to be getting very busy indeed if they continued west, is absolutely ridiculous. That it currently goes up to 2tph after the pm peak is even more mad.

The 16:22 goes back to London at 16:56 then forms the 19:30 to Weston-super-mare.  Send the 16:22 on to Swansea and you loose the really quiet (NOT!) Weston train - frequency off London dropping to / via Bristol earlier in the evening than it does at present.     2 p.m. on to Swansea (and at least one to Carmarthen?) caters for the important/lucrative London (to Wales) peak, and helps get stock back to Swansea depot for overnight servicing.

"Nothing to stop the Welsh Government contracting / franchising someone to run extra capacity from Cardiff to(ward) Swansea" you will be told ...followed by a cry of "ooze gonna pay4 it?" and "ow do we fill the train the rest of the day?".   Old problem of everything wants to be "peak length" at peak time; took us a while to get the 17:36 Swindon to Westbury extended beyond one carriage ... though no problem for years prior with such services as the 06:12 and 18:48.
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