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Author Topic: Timetable and other upcoming changes - overview (from GWR) last Monday  (Read 11618 times)
CMRail
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« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2019, 03:13:46 »

Is Cheltenham still going direct to Paddington hourly/Bristol 4x an hour?
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« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2019, 09:16:19 »

Is Cheltenham still going direct to Paddington hourly/Bristol 4x an hour?

From the end of the year, yep.
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« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2019, 09:24:36 »

Is Cheltenham still going direct to Paddington hourly/Bristol 4x an hour?

The Monday to Friday proposal going to Network Rail for validation / acceptance is for an hourly through service from Cheltenham Spa, via Gloucester, Stroud, Swindon and Reading to London Paddington.  Proposals for Saturday and Sunday services have not been shared.   Bristol to Paddington via Swindon is dramatically increased with up to 4 trains per hour. In a typical daytime hour, there are Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington services in 82 minutes with just a single intermediate stop at Bristol Parkway and two which take 95 or 96 minutes. For comparison, current services during the day are timed between 97 and 102 minutes.   For the sake of completeness I'll also report 2 trains per hours from South Wales (one Cardiff, one Swansea) in the pattern on what's timed in a typical hour at 112 and 116 minutes, compared to timings between 124 and 131 minutes today, with an unaltered calling pattern. 

At peak times, there are variations (on the Bristols) - of particular note in my own area is that one or two of the super-expresses have Bath Spa and Chippenham stops in place of the Bristol Parkway stop.  That gives a 73 minutes ride from Bath Spa to London - 60 minute non-stop from Chippenham.  Whilst excellent for our Chippenham MP (Member of Parliament) (who I have seen looking very tired indeed getting of an evening train on the way back - I do NOT want her job!) it does mean the trains either side are jostled into a 20 minut(ish) services ... a gap of over 40 minutes from Chippenham to Swindon has opened up, with no arrivals into Swindon at all in the half hour from 08:30 to 09:00.  That starts to open the door on some of the issues that are concerns, some no more that slight inconveniences and others very serious indeed.

"You cannot make an omelette without breaking eggs" said the deputy leader of Wiltshire Council to me when describing the changes in Melksham Market Place that have replaced all the short term parking spaces with a piattza ... to the chagrin on of the four take-aways that are there, and used to rely on those spaces for people to pick up their orders.   The new, more frequent, faster, London services look really good (and unlike the new Market Place will probably be popular most of the time), but it really hurts to have been nurturing the eggs (and indeed chickens as may are already hatched) and had them sacrificed with (yes) some listening to our concerns as did Wiltshire Council, but little if any practical addressing of them.

Is Cheltenham still going direct to Paddington hourly/Bristol 4x an hour?

From the end of the year, yep.

Ah ... how to say in 7 words what took me 433  Grin


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« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2019, 16:37:24 »

Having the extra Bristol to London trains is good. Not completing the electrification of Filton Bank will look very odd once they start running, though. There will also be extra traffic from MetroWest fairly soon, hopefully, and we will see another major overhaul of the timetable to accommodate that.
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« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2019, 08:19:33 »

Any hope for getting Swansea up to 2tph in the pm peak? The current situation with short turns at Cardiff arriving at 1622 and 1723, where they'd be just about to be getting very busy indeed if they continued west, is absolutely ridiculous. That it currently goes up to 2tph after the pm peak is even more mad.

The 16:22 goes back to London at 16:56 then forms the 19:30 to Weston-super-mare.

But Bristol's getting an extra 2tph out of thin air (including stops at Bristol Parkway that are not being compensated for by taking them out of the South Wales services, so that Oxford-Cardiff passengers can get seats at Didcot) – surely one of those super-expresses could continue to Weston instead? There seems to be very uneven treatment going on here – Bristol and South Wales services have been pretty much equal for as long as I can remember, and now they're being massively slanted towards Bristol – is the person who came up with this from somewhere on the north side of Bristol, one wonders...
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« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2019, 09:28:59 »

Putting a Melksham hat on, at present its usually better to change at Swindon for onward travel to Reading or Paddington, rather than Chippenham, as this offers additional trains from South Wales as well as from Bristol. As I understand the proposals, a significant number of trains won't stop at Swindon, whether from Bristol via Bath, from Bristol via Parkway or from Wales. Hence there may be occasions when a change at Chippenham gets you there quicker, more complication for the less rail savvy, and less contingency for those more attuned to the timetable details. Gets even more problematic on the return.
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« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2019, 09:30:06 »

Ah ... how to say in 7 words what took me 433  Grin
Maybe, but as GWR (Great Western Railway) are saying nothing about the forthcoming major timetable changes and for those of us unable to attend such timetable meetings, your reply is very much appreciated Graham.

One can but hope in time that GWR will be more forthcoming publicly with the timetable changes once they've been agreed by Network Rail.

Commenting on the four trains an hour Bristol-London. Are four trains an hour really needed, especially from Parkway? I would have thought one of those could have gone via Bath then non-stop to London. But I am aware of capacity constraints between Bristol and Bathampton Junction is probably the reason why the extra two services an hour will go via Parkway.
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« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2019, 10:04:10 »

Commenting on the four trains an hour Bristol-London. Are four trains an hour really needed, especially from Parkway? I would have thought one of those could have gone via Bath then non-stop to London. But I am aware of capacity constraints between Bristol and Bathampton Junction is probably the reason why the extra two services an hour will go via Parkway.

Nail hit firmly on head, I reckon. GWR (Great Western Railway) clearly think that the two extra trains are needed, and I think they will be very popular because of the speed. The current peak trains can get very cosy indeed, and a few hundred seats tto Paddington will be very welcome. It will also make life easier for anyone travelling between Temple Meads and Bath, Chippenham, Swindon etc, or indeed boarding at those stations for London.
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« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2019, 10:26:49 »

It will also make life easier for anyone travelling between Temple Meads and Bath, Chippenham, Swindon etc, or indeed boarding at those stations for London.
Indeed, it certainly will have a positive effect on the current two services an hour that go via Bath that there will be less Bristol passengers who are London bound as they will probably use the non-stop after Parkway services to London.

I just think that with the large volume of London traffic that Bath Spa generates, a third fast service would be useful but for the capacity constraints through Bath, something Parkway no longer has an issue with with four tracks and the faster line via Badminton.
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« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2019, 10:28:45 »

Any hope for getting Swansea up to 2tph in the pm peak? The current situation with short turns at Cardiff arriving at 1622 and 1723, where they'd be just about to be getting very busy indeed if they continued west, is absolutely ridiculous. That it currently goes up to 2tph after the pm peak is even more mad.

The 16:22 goes back to London at 16:56 then forms the 19:30 to Weston-super-mare.

But Bristol's getting an extra 2tph out of thin air (including stops at Bristol Parkway that are not being compensated for by taking them out of the South Wales services, so that Oxford-Cardiff passengers can get seats at Didcot) – surely one of those super-expresses could continue to Weston instead? There seems to be very uneven treatment going on here – Bristol and South Wales services have been pretty much equal for as long as I can remember, and now they're being massively slanted towards Bristol – is the person who came up with this from somewhere on the north side of Bristol, one wonders...

When these trains were first mentioned they were going into the old Brunel shed and would be 801s.  I suspect that after all the changes (no electrification and no trains in the Brunel shed) no-one has rethought the requirements.
I agree that it would be nice if one of these could run from Weston.
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« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2019, 10:40:31 »

I’m not sure why the requirements needed to be rethought?  Sending a train to Weston would need more units, the fleet was ordered based on the numbers needed to supply the long planned 4tph (and other additional trains on other routes) which without electrification will of course will just run in diesel mode between Parkway and Temple Meads.  The only material change from the original plan is around capacity at Temple Meads for the two extra trains per hour now that the shed won’t be modified any time soon - which NR» (Network Rail - home page)’s validation process will obviously confirm.
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« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2019, 10:49:06 »

...replaced all the short term parking spaces with a piattza

Did he mean 'pizza'?

...is the person who came up with this from somewhere on the north side of Bristol, one wonders...

If you count those bits of South Glos that are really Bristol as Bristol, then most of Bristol is somewhere on the north side of Bristol.
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« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2019, 11:07:42 »

...replaced all the short term parking spaces with a piattza

Did he mean 'pizza'?

He meant one of those Italian Pedestrian Square jobbies ... where you see pictures of flows of tourists walking around in short sleeves, short trousers and mini-skirts in the glorious sunshine, with the only umbrella is site being the one waves by their tour guide as they keep their flock together.   Where you see the sides of the square (or piatza or whatever) decorated with open air cafes all of with their canopies to keep the sun off, and where there's no roundabout in the middle with vehicle fumes emanating from the ever-queueing vehicles.   Nice idea; works in places like Paternoster square but I remaining questioning for Melksham Market Place.
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« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2019, 11:28:06 »

My personal preference is to prioritise a regular clockface timetable as much as possible over shoe-horning in occaisional vanity expresses (vanity for the operator to advertise a travel time only achieved once or twice a day and to meet the vanity of certain places and/or their elected representatives Smiley ).

There is a fair deal of intermediate travel between all the stations from Bristol to London and creating holes even off-peak from the present situation needs careful consideration.

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grahame
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« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2019, 12:34:21 »

There are so many to quote that I'm quoting none, but having some thoughts reflecting all that's been written.

Daytime, two trains per hour is an adequate frequency for Bristol - Bath - Chippenham - Swindon, but capacity starts to become an issue even when there's 8 or more cars on all trains. 

Running an extra two from Bristol (Temple Meads) to Bath Spa along the two track line that has also to support a twice-an-hour (future - currently 1 per hour) stopper, with calls for an extra stop that's perhaps a bit more than a kite, and also a regional express towards Portsmouth, would give capacity issues.  You need to leave a gap ahead of each express at the 15 minute intervals, follow each out with something else just minutes behind ... and by the time you're at Bath Spa your stopper's going to have been caught up with.  So the signalling headway might be just 3 or 4 minutes, but the capacity with alternate fast and slow trains that are clock face reduces that to an average train headway of 7.5 minutes.   Oh - did I mention SWR» (South Western Railway - about)'s trains to Waterloo, or any freight / engineering /  track testing trains?  Did I mention the need to be able to recover if something turns up late for its path?

So - more logical to slice the top off the market - send two of the trains via the four track railway up to Bristol Parkway, continuing along on what we might call "HS0" where in a typical hours there's a succession of 80x trains from Westerleigh to Royal Wootton Bassett,  and nothing much else, allowing trains through at fairly close to the signalling headway if need be.   That also provides the economy of North Bristol / South Gloucestershire with an excellent sponge service to pick up passengers who might otherwise be cramming onto trains coming through from Wales, and it provides them with an extra hub / interchange station in what's a pretty clogged area at the moment - already busy, Parkway in the future will or may be providing extra connectivity not there at the moment such as MetroBus, shuttles from Cribbs Causeway and the developments on Filton Airfield, SEWWEB trains serving local stations from Newport - and perhaps we can ask if there's a case for an hourly Yate to Bristol Temple Meads via Henry, Avonmouth and Clifton Down service.

Like the "you'll have more seats from Chippenham to Swindon, Didcot, Reading and London because Bristol to London (all the way) traffic is syphoned off", passengers from Cardiff to Didcot should find passengers on their trains who are making Parkway to London journeys syphoned off by the 30 minute Bristol Expresses.
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