Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 15:35 28 Mar 2024
- Man held over stabbing in front of train passengers
- How do I renew my UK passport and what is the 10-year rule?
- Jet2 launches first flight from Liverpool airport
- Easter travel warning as millions set to hit roads
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
28th Mar (1988)
Formal end to carrying coffins by BR (link)

Train RunningCancelled
13:26 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
13:28 Weymouth to Gloucester
15:10 Newquay to Par
15:14 Swindon to Westbury
15:16 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
15:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington
16:04 Bristol Temple Meads to Filton Abbey Wood
16:51 Filton Abbey Wood to Bristol Temple Meads
17:54 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
17:57 London Paddington to Worcester Foregate Street
19:33 London Paddington to Worcester Shrub Hill
20:56 Worcester Foregate Street to London Paddington
Short Run
11:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central
12:03 London Paddington to Penzance
12:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour
13:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
13:10 Gloucester to Weymouth
14:05 Salisbury to Bristol Temple Meads
15:10 Gloucester to Weymouth
15:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central
15:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour
16:19 Carmarthen to London Paddington
16:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central
16:54 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
Delayed
10:04 London Paddington to Penzance
13:59 Cardiff Central to Penzance
14:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour
17:04 Bristol Temple Meads to Filton Abbey Wood
17:51 Filton Abbey Wood to Bristol Temple Meads
PollsOpen and recent polls
Closed 2024-03-25 Easter Escape - to where?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 28, 2024, 15:39:06 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[142] West Wiltshire Bus Changes April 2024
[80] would you like your own LIVE train station departure board?
[56] Return of the BRUTE?
[46] If not HS2 to Manchester, how will traffic be carried?
[43] Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption el...
[34] Reversing Beeching - bring heritage and freight lines into the...
 
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4
  Print  
Author Topic: World's largest electric bus order  (Read 14015 times)
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4256


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2019, 12:27:01 »

Trolleybus and bus are distinct words in Polish, but I added the "claimed to be" as they didn't provide any evidence of this.
Logged

Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4256


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2019, 12:38:41 »

There are two or three places in Poland with trolleybuses and I used to live in one, so I'll add my experience of them. When I first moved to that city (Lublin, population about 400,000) the trolleybuses were not very reliable. They frequently became detached from their overhead wires, requiring the driver to get out and manipulate the connectors (two big poles on the roof) with cables at the back of the bus provided for this purpose. I think the main cause of the frequent disconnections was that the overhead wires were worn and the roads themselves were in bad condition. Most disconnections happened on long curves where the road was also bumpy. There were unused wires in some districts, where the trolleybuses no longer ran, so the whole system seemed to be neglected. But after a couple of years the city transport authority decided to reinvest in trolleybuses and move back to them from buses. Overhead wires were replaced and new roads were wired up. This immediately solved most of the reliability problems. Later, new vehicles were ordered, which were larger and more comfortable. I don't think they were any more delayed by congestion than ordinary buses.

I've no idea on the economics of trolleybuses versus battery buses, nor do I know if Warsaw ever had trolleybuses – I don't recall noticing any in old photos, so I expect not (it does have trams – I don't think any of the cities with trolleybuses do). As for tickets, virtually all urban transport ticketing in Poland is off-vehicle, regardless of vehicle type.
Logged

Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
Reading General
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 410


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2019, 18:20:42 »

So they are light years ahead of us then Grin

Logged
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7155


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2019, 18:42:40 »

Quote
In what's claimed to be the world's largest order of electric buses, Warsaw City Bus Corporation has just ordered 130 Solaris Urbino electric buses for ~£80m.

Here's a challenge for transport historians with more time than I have tonight.

My immediate thought was - is that true? During the relatively brief heyday of the trolley bus could this number be exceeded?
I have had a quick google/wikipedia search revealing that London had 1811 as its maximum fleet, and a total of 1891 in all, between 1931 and 1962, implying it built up a large single generation fleet and then ran it down. It seems likely that there would have been an order for more than 130 in that lot. Anyone out there with the time or deeper knowledge beat Warsaw's claim?

Reputedly, the biggest trolleybus system was in Moscow, with 2000, and until not long ago. It's now down to half that, with replacement initially by just "buses" (i.e. diesel ones) but now by battery electrics. I've seen 200 quoted for that fleet, split between two makers. I suspect earlier trolleybus orders may have been bigger, but may not be seen as a commercial order. So which is the biggest is probably a matter of "when is an order not one order".
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40690



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2019, 19:02:40 »

I've no idea on the economics of trolleybuses versus battery buses ...

Has me wondering ... "charge as you go" ... trolleybuses with batteries - charge and run on the wired sections (those which have lots and lots of vehicles making it economic to wire and maintain) then battery the out in the Boondocks. All sorts of questions about getting the power through and live wires in cities - though only the same issues as trams, I suppose.   Feels a very Cambridge type solution to innovate with Grin - or has it been done somewhere?
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7155


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2019, 19:13:45 »

I've no idea on the economics of trolleybuses versus battery buses ...

Has me wondering ... "charge as you go" ... trolleybuses with batteries - charge and run on the wired sections (those which have lots and lots of vehicles making it economic to wire and maintain) then battery the out in the Boondocks. All sorts of questions about getting the power through and live wires in cities - though only the same issues as trams, I suppose.   Feels a very Cambridge type solution to innovate with Grin - or has it been done somewhere?

In reality, even places that start with overhead wires seem desperately keen to rip them down. However, I'm not aware of any huge problem with these 500-800V lines, and putting them in for trams doesn't seem to be such a big issue (outside "precious" city centres). 

I can see a couple of potential technical issues, which of course could be solved with enough will. One is the automatic engagement of two booms onto the wires, and the other is that charging batteries off relatively short stretches of overhead might call for more current than they can supply. Better contact arrangements onto the wire would help with both.
Logged
Reading General
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 410


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2019, 21:00:25 »

Trolleybuses in Castellon Spain have unwired sections in the town centre. They can drop booms on the move and have catchers to place them back on the wires at a particular stop provided the bus is near enough positioned correctly. Solingen in Germany has by far the best system as far as I'm concerned. Nice long runs between stops. Routes that cross the town centre, with easy interchange in the middle. Tram like signalling in some areas. At one end they run beyond the wires on small diesel engines to the terminus which will be battery run soon, and best of all, they connect with the Schwebebahn in the suburbs of Wuppertal. I guess my point for wiring is that if the bus runs a route at high frequency all day and all year, why not wire it instead of being battery reliant all the time? I'm sure this will be far cheaper in the long term as well as the permanence benefits. The other issue with battery buses that concerns me is the disposal of the batteries after use. The experience with hybrids so far suggests continually charged batteries are expensive to replace and need doing so every other year. Most of Reading's hybrid fleet have now been converted to rather under powered regular diesel engines.
Logged
Reading General
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 410


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2019, 21:07:49 »

The first 90 seconds of this video demonstrate the de-wiring and re-wiring

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4a6ZsFPon0

Cheers
Logged
martyjon
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1941


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2019, 21:22:33 »

See how the Romans do it ;-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ufIYOonpIo
Logged
Reading General
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 410


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2019, 21:30:51 »

Clever stuff
Logged
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4256


View Profile
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2019, 21:47:07 »

Both Sollingen and Rome are far more sophisticated than anything I ever saw on Polish trolleybuses.
Logged

Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
Reading General
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 410


View Profile
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2019, 21:57:52 »

I just watched a video on the youtube of Lublin trolleybuses and it appears they have quite a modern system. Since they chose to refresh the system they have added mileage by wiring the most popular frequent routes. Their vehicles also seem to have off wire traction capabilities. .
Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5398



View Profile
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2019, 15:03:33 »

With the recent advances in batteries, it seems very worthwhile to consider trolleybuses with limited battery power. If most of the route is wired then only a modest size battery is needed.
Battery operation for short distances would simplify operation at road junctions, roundabouts, and would permit of short diversions away from the wired route for road repairs etc.
A trolleybus on battery power could also cross a railway line via a level crossing, just as a diesel bus does, it could also pass under bridges too low for trolley wires.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4256


View Profile
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2019, 15:46:52 »

I just watched a video on the youtube of Lublin trolleybuses and it appears they have quite a modern system. Since they chose to refresh the system they have added mileage by wiring the most popular frequent routes. Their vehicles also seem to have off wire traction capabilities. .
Have you got a link to the video? They were wiring more routes and bring old wires back into service when I was last there but they didn't have off-wire traction. I haven't been there since about 2013 though...
Logged

Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
Reading General
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 410


View Profile
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2019, 20:28:34 »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWfWnoCncU0

Took a while to find again as the script is in Polish.
Watching these videos frustrates me that we don't have anything as basic and simple as this form of quiet and emission free transport in the U.K. Annoying we had it all before, and annoying that instead of re-installing it we just wait around for technology to become better and cheaper. Modern Britain thinks it's a world leader, yet it's miles behind with infrastructure. We can't even provide decent transport in major towns and cities! The private car wins hands down. When we do try change something we have to have our own backward way of doing it.

Interestingly when a Reading trolleybus visited the town last year and was parked up in Broad Street, many British people had no idea what it was, or just thought it was an old bus. Many Europeans who stopped though knew exactly what the poles on the roof were for and were surprised to know that the town had trolleybuses in the first place and wondered why on earth they were removed.
Still, enjoy the video. Might have to travel there and have a ride on them one day.

Cheers
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page