Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 10:35 19 Mar 2024
- Potholes leave nations' roads at 'breaking point'
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 tomorrow - WWRUG AGM
23/03/24 - Trains restart - Minehead
02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber

No 'On This Day' events reported for 19th Mar

Train RunningCancelled
08:59 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington
09:50 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
10:41 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
17:00 Oxford to London Paddington
Short Run
18:23 London Paddington to Banbury
19:45 Banbury to London Paddington
PollsOpen and recent polls
Open to 25/03 16:00 Easter Escape - to where?
Closed 2024-03-16 Should our rail network go cashless
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 19, 2024, 10:50:27 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[174] A daily picture from my recent travels
[61] Where would you recommend for an Easter Escape?
[53] More travels ... more looking at how others do it ...
[51] M25 motorway issue: a most illuminating Twitter thread.
[46] 2024 Delays and Cancellations - North Cotswold Line
[43] Briefing on forthcoming changes - from GWR on 14.3.2024
 
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 8
  Print  
Author Topic: Open Access Application - London to Cardiff (28/03/2019)  (Read 49099 times)
SandTEngineer
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3485


View Profile
« on: March 28, 2019, 14:34:57 »

And now another one....
https://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0015/40812/open-access-economic-equilibrium-test-oa-form-gut-2019-03-27.pdf

Must be something in the spring air Tongue
Logged
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10081


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2019, 14:57:29 »

By my reckoning that would mean 12-13 trains each off peak hour running on the main lines between Reading and Paddington.  16-17 between Airport Junction and Paddington.

4 x Bristol
2 x South Wales
1 x Open access
1 x South Cotswolds
2 x North Cotswolds/Oxford
1 x West of England express
1 x West of England semi-fast (every other hour)
1 x Bedwyn

Enough to make me very doubtful that it will gain approval.
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
SandTEngineer
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3485


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2019, 15:08:27 »

Yes, II, a bit of a challenge.  If I remember correctly the signalling allows for a 3 minute headway on the MAIN LINES but that assumes all trains have consistent acceleration and braking and inbetween travel at a consistent non-stop speed.

The fly in the ointment is HEATHROW EXPRESS which probably uses up two paths for each trip (due to the turnout speeds at Stockley Junction).  You only need to watch an up HEATHROW EXPRESS being routed to the UP MAIN by the signalling ARS (Automatic Route Setting) system and completely stuffing the UP MAIN services running on clear signals tail to nose at 125mph, back to Maidenhead.  Completely destroys the service.

Then there are the OXFORDS that stop at Slough and the 95mph BEDWYNS ( although that will be eased once they become IETs (Intercity Express Train)).

No room for any contingency.  Perhaps the new service could use the RELIEF lines.... Roll Eyes Tongue
« Last Edit: March 28, 2019, 15:20:19 by SandTEngineer » Logged
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10081


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2019, 15:17:45 »

No room for any contingency.  Perhaps the new service could use the RELIEF lines.... Roll Eyes Tongue

Or if they're really desperate there's always the SLOW lines?  Tongue
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40648



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2019, 16:40:37 »

There may be other capacity issues further west too ...
* Didcot (or Foxhall Junction) to Swindon
* Swindon to Royal Wootton Bassett
* Area though Bristol Parkway
* We were also told of capacity / timetabling issues between Patchway and Severn Tunnel Junction
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10081


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2019, 16:46:07 »

Indeed.  Not to mention platform availability at Cardiff and Paddington.  It would be nice to see the Class 91/Mk IV/DVT(resolve)'s continue in service as they've still got a lot of useful life in them, though compared with IETs (Intercity Express Train) they are painfully slow at accelerating, especially if they are staying at their current length of nine carriages, which will also likely cause capacity issues and difficulties pathing them on the GWML (Great Western Main Line).
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
Lee
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7519


GBR - The Emperor's New Rail Network


View Profile WWW
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2019, 16:54:47 »

Potential SEWWEB Express?
Logged

Vous devez être impitoyable, parce que ces gens sont des salauds - https://looka.com/s/78722877
didcotdean
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1424


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2019, 17:32:10 »

Grand Union Trains. A company with one director, incorporated last year, with a share capital of £1.
Logged
Richard Fairhurst
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1199


View Profile Email
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2019, 17:46:30 »

That one director being serial open access-er Ian Yogurt Yeowart, previously behind Grand Central, Alliance Rail and associated enterprises.
Logged
ray951
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 460


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2019, 21:04:00 »

There may be other capacity issues further west too ...
* Didcot (or Foxhall Junction) to Swindon
* Swindon to Royal Wootton Bassett
* Area though Bristol Parkway
* We were also told of capacity / timetabling issues between Patchway and Severn Tunnel Junction
They will also need to have replaced the bridge at Steventon or slowed down as per the 387's going to Swindon.
Logged
Celestial
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 674


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2019, 17:16:21 »

That seems to be a direct raid on GWR (Great Western Railway) revenue, which I thought was not allowed for Open Access applications?  I hardly think calls at STJ (Severn Tunnel Junction railway station) would be enough of a difference to persuade the regulator that it wasn't. I'm surprised it doesn't mention calling at the Cardiff East station once open. That would then be a bit different as I suspect GWR won't want to.

Also, I would have thought they would be carrying a lot of fresh air, particularly outside the peak times. Maybe if they cut down to 6 coaches they would have better acceleration and be less empty, but even that is a lot of seats to fill.
Logged
Lee
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7519


GBR - The Emperor's New Rail Network


View Profile WWW
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2019, 17:54:34 »

If they alternate the calls at Severn Tunnel Junction with calls at a relocated Pilning Westgate station built to SEWWEB specifications, then we will fill those seats, while providing the difference for the regulator, and generating revenue that no-one can say GWR (Great Western Railway) have been desperate to capture thus far.

Dont bet against us - Remember we've done it before on services that we were told would carry fresh air if they were provided.
Logged

Vous devez être impitoyable, parce que ces gens sont des salauds - https://looka.com/s/78722877
eightf48544
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4574


View Profile Email
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2019, 11:11:17 »

Couple of other points.

They seem to be  proposing using 91s and Mark4s presumably  off the East Coast. Where will they be maintained?

I am reliably informed that the 91s are the most sluggish accelerating locos on the system how will they compete with IETs (Intercity Express Train)?
Logged
SandTEngineer
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3485


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2019, 11:50:54 »

Couple of other points.

They seem to be  proposing using 91s and Mark4s presumably  off the East Coast. Where will they be maintained?

I am reliably informed that the 91s are the most sluggish accelerating locos on the system how will they compete with IETs (Intercity Express Train)?

They won't.  See my post way above how Heathrow Express consumes the train paths.  Anyway, reading on another forum, the Class 91s and MK4s are 'shot to pieces' and would need major rebuilds, and isn't that why they are being replaced by IETs?.......

Don't get me wrong, though.  I'm all for new services but they do need to be practicible in their application.  Concentrate on filling the gaps elsewhere first, before trying to compete with an already established market.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 11:57:01 by SandTEngineer » Logged
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7148


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2019, 13:07:59 »

I am reliably informed that the 91s are the most sluggish accelerating locos on the system how will they compete with IETs (Intercity Express Train)?

That's rather unfair on the Class 91s themselves - you just try one without a heavy train hanging off its back (or front, in this case) end and see what it'll do. However, it is very much true of the IC225s and of electric LHCS (Locomotive Hauled Coaching Stock) in general. A big electric loco has both more power and less weight than a diesel one, and that limits its pulling power, however you measure it.

I'd not looked at 225s before, but assuming Wikipedia's numbers are even roughly right the effect is striking. My preferred figure of merit is the "weight fraction" - the fraction of the weight on powered axles. That, times the adhesion (friction coefficient) give you the maximum possible acceleration. Since adhesion is the same for all trains, it gives a direct comparison whatever number you assume - 0.1 is not unusual, and means that the following numbers are limiting accelerations in m/s2:
Cl 800: 0.6
HST (High Speed Train): 0.33
IC225: 0.15

So sluggish? Yes. So what do you do? Not stop much (as intended for the ones kept on the ECML (East Coast Main Line)), and buy a good WSP (though they don't AFAICS (As Far As I Can See) have one for slip) or train your drivers to have a light touch. And keep your rails clean!

edit: to correct definition of figures
« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 19:39:50 by stuving » Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 8
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page