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Author Topic: Intermediate services v stopping expresses  (Read 3507 times)
grahame
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« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2019, 06:27:50 »

I wouldnt want you to have the impression that Brittany has excessive numbers of units that provide "peak splurge" services and then sit around doing nothing for much of the day - that's not how it works.

Instead, the units that call at all 4 categories of stations in the peak are the same units that ensure a good overall spread of services in each direction for Category 1 and Category 2 stations in the off-peak - they just run faster by either not calling or rarely calling at Category 3 and 4 stations during the off-peak.

OK ... I suppose that's a similarity to the first two morning runs from Westbury into Paddington stopping at Bedwyn, Hungerford and Kintbury ... then running faster later in the day.  Difference being that in the UK (United Kingdom) there's now an overlay of regular trains that continue through the day.
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jamestheredengine
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« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2019, 10:54:14 »

One thing I have noticed about Brittany is that some quite sensible-looking journeys are basically impossible without a massive detour all the way into Paris and back(!!). There's a perfectly sensible Intercité heading south from Nantes to La Rochelle and Bordeaux, but the train timetable is set up so that the earliest train one can make south from Nantes off an 8.15am ferry arrival at St-Malo is the 1621 (and forget any onward connections from Bordeaux out of that one). I'm not sure why the Intercité route along the west coast doesn't at least routinely start at Rennes, but clearly that would be too helpful for the SNCF (Societe Nationale des Chemins de fer Francais - French National Railways). This sort of thing makes GWR (Great Western Railway)'s Cardiff-Portsmouth service look very good indeed.
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eightf48544
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« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2019, 10:56:55 »

Shouldn't there be a category for Interchange stations say make it A*.

Possible examples

A* Birmingham New Street Plymouth
B* Stations where not all trains stop but those that do have a branch connection. Liskguard?
C* West Ealing, Slough, Maidenhead, Twyford.
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Lee
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« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2019, 16:24:07 »

Over here in France in my part of Brittany, stations on the main lines tend to fall into the following categories on Mondays-Fridays:

1 - Large or strategic towns or cities where all virtually all trains call, express and local.

2 - Smaller towns where most local services call giving a good spread in each direction throughout the day, but few if any expresses do.

3 - Suburbs, towns or villages within the catchment area of a large town or city, where bursts of train services call during the peaks to facilitate commuting or school/student traffic to and from that large town or city, but little else calling outside of this.

4 - Villages beyond the catchment areas mentioned in 3. , where one train in each direction calls per day to facilitate commuting or school/student traffic to and from the nearest large town or city.

On Saturdays and Sundays there is a very clear cut off point - Stations in categories 3 and 4 get pretty close to nowt.

However, on the branch lines in my part of the world - Guingamp-Carhaix and Guingamp-Paimpol - we have 5-6 trains per weekday and 3-4 trains on Saturdays and Sundays in each direction, calling at all stations from the bigger towns down to the smallest hamlets, spread pretty well throughout the day.

Ok - just for a bit of sport, lets imagine what train services in Devon & Cornwall might be like if they had been developed and run in a similar way to those in Brittany over the last few decades. NOTE - I am very much in "crayon" mode here, a serious proposal this aint  Grin

1 - Electric TGV (Train a Grande Vitesse) services from London to Exeter, Newton Abbot and Plymouth ( 140 minute journey time according to First Great Western in 2002 ), via dedicated line including Dawlish Avoiding Line, continuing from Plymouth via the "classic" route and calling at Liskeard, Bodmin Parkway, Par, St Austell, Truro, Redruth, St Erth and Penzance.

2 - Electric Local services from Plymouth to Penzance, calling at Category 1 stations plus Saltash, Lostwithiel, Camborne and Hayle.

3 - "Splurge" peak additional calls on Category 2 services at Devonport, Dockyard, Keyham and St Budeaux Ferry Road.

4 - One Category 2 service in each direction per day to call at St Germans and Menheniot.

On Saturdays and Sundays there is a very clear cut off point - Stations in categories 3 and 4 get pretty close to nowt.

Elsewhere:

Regular local electric train services shuttle between Paignton-Torquay-Newton Abbot to provide TGV connections, with some seasonal direct TGV services being provided as well.

Exeter-Okehampton-Tavistock-Bere Alston-Plymouth survives as a perpetually crumbling and closure-threatened, non-electrified secondary line, rather than actually having been closed in the late 60's/early 70's, with a handful of trains in each direction per day, with perhaps a few buses as well due to the state of the infrastructure (think Dol-Dinan-Lamballe-St Brieuc. ) The branch off towards Calstock and Gunnislake has closed some years previously.

Ivybridge does not reopen.

Non-electric all-year round branch line train services are provided on Truro-Falmouth, Par-Newquay and Exeter-Barnstaple-Ilfracombe, the continuation of which to the latter survives rather than having been closed in the early 70's. The service pattern on each of these lines is roughly 5-6 trains per weekday and 3-4 trains on Saturdays and Sundays in each direction, calling at all stations from the bigger towns down to the smallest hamlets, spread pretty well throughout the day (think Guingamp-Carhaix or Guingamp-Paimpol. )

Non-electric summer-only branch line train services are provided on St Erth-St Ives and Liskeard-Looe (think Auray-Quiberon. )

Both Plymouth and Exeter have some form of light rail/tram/metro, the latter incorporating the Exmouth branch and some of the original Dawlish and Teignmouth route (think Rennes Metro or Brest Trams. )

Now, some will love the idea of this way of doing things, and some will quite obviously loathe it. For me, that's the beauty of being able to study both the UK (United Kingdom) and French networks at close hand - There is no perfect system, only different ones to learn from and take those lessons on board going forward.
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Lee
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« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2019, 17:43:02 »

Just to add for the authentic Brittany experience - No CrossCountry services west of Exeter. Some available starting from Exeter and heading north, but to nowhere near the same scale and regularity.

No sleepers either.

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grahame
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« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2019, 06:53:34 »

I thought of this thread (original topic) when I read the following on a well-shared (within Facebook groups) message

Quote
Transpennine (TPE (Trans Pennine Express)) use to run services to Bolton and up to Scotland. When the electrification of the line started, TPE was diverted via Wigan North Western, missing out Bolton and Chorley. Now that the the electrification is complete, TPE have not come back via Bolton, Bolton does not have a service to Scotland anymore.

I don't hear any concerns at services from Bolton into Manchester (also newly electrified ?) which must be a much bigger flow than Bolton to Scotland and I just wonder if the rerouting of TransPennine Express services is one of the "co-lateral damages" that is for the greater good. If the new route is significantly faster and more reliable from Manchester to Scotland, and if the re-routing allows paths for better Bolton - Manchester services, perhaps the Bolton to Glasgow flow users have to accept a change of trains at Preston?

This is a question from me - anyone able to fill me in?  There are general lessons in service re-arrangements ...
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