Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 13:15 03 Dec 2022
- Rail strike is cancelled - at the cost of paid sick leave
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 30/03/23 - Railfuture Annual, Leeds

No 'On This Day' events reported for 3rd Dec

Train RunningCancelled
12:33 Exeter Central to Okehampton
12:48 London Paddington to Swansea
13:01 Marlow to Maidenhead
13:35 Maidenhead to Marlow
Short Run
13:26 Okehampton to Exeter Central
14:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour
18:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central
19:29 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour
20:29 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour
04/12/22 00:01 Wokingham to Gatwick Airport
04/12/22 06:11 Gatwick Airport to Guildford
Delayed
10:22 Swansea to London Paddington
11:10 Weymouth to Gloucester
11:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington
11:48 London Paddington to Swansea
An additional train service has been planned to operate as shown 12:50 Swindon to London Paddington
13:15 Plymouth to London Paddington
PollsThere are no open or recent polls
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
December 03, 2022, 01:27:43 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[277] Advent Quiz - December 2022
[70] Growing Rail Revenue
[65] Vivarail in financial difficulties
[53] Privately owned funicular railway.
[51] "Just keep playing trains" - railways as mental health therapy...
[30] Why does Cholsey bridge have such a tall hump?
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2]
  Print  
Author Topic: Intermediate services v stopping expresses  (Read 1859 times)
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 37298



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2019, 06:27:50 am »

I wouldnt want you to have the impression that Brittany has excessive numbers of units that provide "peak splurge" services and then sit around doing nothing for much of the day - that's not how it works.

Instead, the units that call at all 4 categories of stations in the peak are the same units that ensure a good overall spread of services in each direction for Category 1 and Category 2 stations in the off-peak - they just run faster by either not calling or rarely calling at Category 3 and 4 stations during the off-peak.

OK ... I suppose that's a similarity to the first two morning runs from Westbury into Paddington stopping at Bedwyn, Hungerford and Kintbury ... then running faster later in the day.  Difference being that in the UK (United Kingdom) there's now an overlay of regular trains that continue through the day.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, and on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest.
jamestheredengine
Transport Scholar
Sr. Member
******
Posts: 282


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2019, 10:54:14 am »

One thing I have noticed about Brittany is that some quite sensible-looking journeys are basically impossible without a massive detour all the way into Paris and back(!!). There's a perfectly sensible Intercité heading south from Nantes to La Rochelle and Bordeaux, but the train timetable is set up so that the earliest train one can make south from Nantes off an 8.15am ferry arrival at St-Malo is the 1621 (and forget any onward connections from Bordeaux out of that one). I'm not sure why the Intercité route along the west coast doesn't at least routinely start at Rennes, but clearly that would be too helpful for the SNCF (Societe Nationale des Chemins de fer Francais - French National Railways). This sort of thing makes GWR (Great Western Railway)'s Cardiff-Portsmouth service look very good indeed.
Logged

eightf48544
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4572


View Profile Email
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2019, 10:56:55 am »

Shouldn't there be a category for Interchange stations say make it A*.

Possible examples

A* Birmingham New Street Plymouth
B* Stations where not all trains stop but those that do have a branch connection. Liskguard?
C* West Ealing, Slough, Maidenhead, Twyford.
Logged
Lee
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7519


GBR - The Emperor's New Rail Network


View Profile WWW
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2019, 04:24:07 pm »

Over here in France in my part of Brittany, stations on the main lines tend to fall into the following categories on Mondays-Fridays:

1 - Large or strategic towns or cities where all virtually all trains call, express and local.

2 - Smaller towns where most local services call giving a good spread in each direction throughout the day, but few if any expresses do.

3 - Suburbs, towns or villages within the catchment area of a large town or city, where bursts of train services call during the peaks to facilitate commuting or school/student traffic to and from that large town or city, but little else calling outside of this.

4 - Villages beyond the catchment areas mentioned in 3. , where one train in each direction calls per day to facilitate commuting or school/student traffic to and from the nearest large town or city.

On Saturdays and Sundays there is a very clear cut off point - Stations in categories 3 and 4 get pretty close to nowt.

However, on the branch lines in my part of the world - Guingamp-Carhaix and Guingamp-Paimpol - we have 5-6 trains per weekday and 3-4 trains on Saturdays and Sundays in each direction, calling at all stations from the bigger towns down to the smallest hamlets, spread pretty well throughout the day.

Ok - just for a bit of sport, lets imagine what train services in Devon & Cornwall might be like if they had been developed and run in a similar way to those in Brittany over the last few decades. NOTE - I am very much in "crayon" mode here, a serious proposal this aint  Grin

1 - Electric TGV (Train a Grande Vitesse) services from London to Exeter, Newton Abbot and Plymouth ( 140 minute journey time according to First Great Western in 2002 ), via dedicated line including Dawlish Avoiding Line, continuing from Plymouth via the "classic" route and calling at Liskeard, Bodmin Parkway, Par, St Austell, Truro, Redruth, St Erth and Penzance.

2 - Electric Local services from Plymouth to Penzance, calling at Category 1 stations plus Saltash, Lostwithiel, Camborne and Hayle.

3 - "Splurge" peak additional calls on Category 2 services at Devonport, Dockyard, Keyham and St Budeaux Ferry Road.

4 - One Category 2 service in each direction per day to call at St Germans and Menheniot.

On Saturdays and Sundays there is a very clear cut off point - Stations in categories 3 and 4 get pretty close to nowt.

Elsewhere:

Regular local electric train services shuttle between Paignton-Torquay-Newton Abbot to provide TGV connections, with some seasonal direct TGV services being provided as well.

Exeter-Okehampton-Tavistock-Bere Alston-Plymouth survives as a perpetually crumbling and closure-threatened, non-electrified secondary line, rather than actually having been closed in the late 60's/early 70's, with a handful of trains in each direction per day, with perhaps a few buses as well due to the state of the infrastructure (think Dol-Dinan-Lamballe-St Brieuc. ) The branch off towards Calstock and Gunnislake has closed some years previously.

Ivybridge does not reopen.

Non-electric all-year round branch line train services are provided on Truro-Falmouth, Par-Newquay and Exeter-Barnstaple-Ilfracombe, the continuation of which to the latter survives rather than having been closed in the early 70's. The service pattern on each of these lines is roughly 5-6 trains per weekday and 3-4 trains on Saturdays and Sundays in each direction, calling at all stations from the bigger towns down to the smallest hamlets, spread pretty well throughout the day (think Guingamp-Carhaix or Guingamp-Paimpol. )

Non-electric summer-only branch line train services are provided on St Erth-St Ives and Liskeard-Looe (think Auray-Quiberon. )

Both Plymouth and Exeter have some form of light rail/tram/metro, the latter incorporating the Exmouth branch and some of the original Dawlish and Teignmouth route (think Rennes Metro or Brest Trams. )

Now, some will love the idea of this way of doing things, and some will quite obviously loathe it. For me, that's the beauty of being able to study both the UK (United Kingdom) and French networks at close hand - There is no perfect system, only different ones to learn from and take those lessons on board going forward.
Logged

Vous devez être impitoyable, parce que ces gens sont des salauds - https://looka.com/s/78722877
Lee
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7519


GBR - The Emperor's New Rail Network


View Profile WWW
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2019, 05:43:02 pm »

Just to add for the authentic Brittany experience - No CrossCountry services west of Exeter. Some available starting from Exeter and heading north, but to nowhere near the same scale and regularity.

No sleepers either.

Logged

Vous devez être impitoyable, parce que ces gens sont des salauds - https://looka.com/s/78722877
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 37298



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2019, 06:53:34 am »

I thought of this thread (original topic) when I read the following on a well-shared (within Facebook groups) message

Quote
Transpennine (TPE (Trans Pennine Express)) use to run services to Bolton and up to Scotland. When the electrification of the line started, TPE was diverted via Wigan North Western, missing out Bolton and Chorley. Now that the the electrification is complete, TPE have not come back via Bolton, Bolton does not have a service to Scotland anymore.

I don't hear any concerns at services from Bolton into Manchester (also newly electrified ?) which must be a much bigger flow than Bolton to Scotland and I just wonder if the rerouting of TransPennine Express services is one of the "co-lateral damages" that is for the greater good. If the new route is significantly faster and more reliable from Manchester to Scotland, and if the re-routing allows paths for better Bolton - Manchester services, perhaps the Bolton to Glasgow flow users have to accept a change of trains at Preston?

This is a question from me - anyone able to fill me in?  There are general lessons in service re-arrangements ...
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, and on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest.
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 [2]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page