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  • GWR Timetable recast: December 15, 2019 - December 16, 2019
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Author Topic: December 2019 timetable recast  (Read 18142 times)
Pb_devon
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« Reply #120 on: October 17, 2019, 08:14:53 am »

A note to refer readers to counter comments in the Night Riveria Refurb thread elsewhere on this forum which gives corrected info.
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grahame
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« Reply #121 on: October 20, 2019, 06:52:49 pm »



Noting electric to Newport by the timetable change, to Cardiff on 6th January 2020. Severn Tunnel excepted - pan down at Pilning and up at Severn Tunnel Junction. 

Talking about "not all plain sailing" and Pilning ... current calls 08:34 and 15:34, calls from the timetable recast change to 08:33 and 14:33.

Local concern from the Pilning team at the new time as it mucks up a number of their suggested trips that use the station.   For example, train from Bristol to Severn Beach, walk to Pilning, pint in The Plough, train home becomes run to Pilning, grab a pint in a disposable plastic 'glass' and try not to spill it as you rush up for the train.

Looks like the reason is the the trains that would have called (now passes) at around 15:30 overtakes a freight that stops in the loop to let it past, and it needs to show a clean pair of heels to let the freight get moving and up through Patchway before the next train comes along.
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« Reply #122 on: October 21, 2019, 10:40:36 am »

Looks like the reason is the the trains that would have called (now passes) at around 15:30 overtakes a freight that stops in the loop to let it past, and it needs to show a clean pair of heels to let the freight get moving and up through Patchway before the next train comes along.

Pilning Station Group were not informed officially that the freight train will get in the way.
This is the response given to us by GWR on 18 October: -

"We’re making this change because our 1500 Cardiff-Taunton will operate as a 5-car Class 800 train set and these are not able to call at Pilning. So, from Saturday 21st December 2019 onwards, the weekly services at Pilning station will be as follows:
0833 (the 0800 Cardiff Central-Penzance)
1433 (the 1400 Cardiff Central-Taunton)
Thanks again for your email and for the chance to explain."

So we wrote to the Secretary of State for Transport asking him to instruct GWR to reverse the December timetable change for Pilning, etc. - https://drive.google.com/open?id=1GxR3oPi7urP_KlxbtTQ1r4yXkTVbuU0w
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grahame
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« Reply #123 on: October 21, 2019, 11:48:30 am »


Pilning Station Group were not informed officially that the freight train will get in the way.
This is the response given to us by GWR on 18 October: -

"We’re making this change because our 1500 Cardiff-Taunton will operate as a 5-car Class 800 train set and these are not able to call at Pilning ...

That's very interesting ... looking at Real Time Trains it does indeed show the 15:00 as "timed for 125 m.p.h class 80x".  It shows the 14:00 as "timed for 90 m.p.h. class 158 (other number listed)" which takes - to the minute - the same elapsed time along at all stops as the 15:00.

I think that the 80x class are programmed for each station they call at - which doors to open, etc ... I recall it being an issue that some stations weren't programmed fully or had to be reprogrammed when platforms were lengthened, and that did not happen overnight.

1. The freight is shown there and certainly a stop at Pilning at 15:34 would hold it up - there could very well be two reasons for not stopping and only one has been officially stated

2. I would suspect that there's no physical problem to stopping for passengers at Pilining, but there may be a software one.   If indeed Pilning has been left out of the stopping points programmed in, a corollary question might be if it was looked out as an oversight, or as a conscious decision.
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« Reply #124 on: October 21, 2019, 02:18:04 pm »

1. The freight is shown there and certainly a stop at Pilning at 15:34 would hold it up - there could very well be two reasons for not stopping and only one has been officially stated

2. I would suspect that there's no physical problem to stopping for passengers at Pilining, but there may be a software one.   If indeed Pilning has been left out of the stopping points programmed in, a corollary question might be if it was looked out as an oversight, or as a conscious decision.

As far as I know, the SDO mechanism was created exactly for stations like Pilning, so the stop can be programmed in. Some prep work including testing will be required, and that will take time, that's obvious.

I would not say it was either an oversight or a conscious decision made by GWR not to include Pilning into the SDO diagram. If there is no requirement, as such, no decision needs to be made.

A more interesting question would be, whether giving the 15:34 Pilning slot to a freight company was a deliberate move of Network Rail's, or a simple oversight on their behalf. But I'll leave it to the DfT to enquire about, if this is of interest to them.
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dhassell
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« Reply #125 on: October 21, 2019, 03:24:16 pm »

1. The freight is shown there and certainly a stop at Pilning at 15:34 would hold it up - there could very well be two reasons for not stopping and only one has been officially stated

2. I would suspect that there's no physical problem to stopping for passengers at Pilining, but there may be a software one.   If indeed Pilning has been left out of the stopping points programmed in, a corollary question might be if it was looked out as an oversight, or as a conscious decision.

As far as I know, the SDO mechanism was created exactly for stations like Pilning, so the stop can be programmed in. Some prep work including testing will be required, and that will take time, that's obvious.

I would not say it was either an oversight or a conscious decision made by GWR not to include Pilning into the SDO diagram. If there is no requirement, as such, no decision needs to be made.

A more interesting question would be, whether giving the 15:34 Pilning slot to a freight company was a deliberate move of Network Rail's, or a simple oversight on their behalf. But I'll leave it to the DfT to enquire about, if this is of interest to them.

They would have known months in advance that they plan for 2C81 to be a 5 car IET from December, so no excuse not to programme Pilning into the SDO in that case, even if it wasn't an IET set, there would still be the issue of it causing conflict between the Machen freight service and the introduced half-hourly service on a Saturday from Paddington to Cardiff at Patchway, which I think is probably the main reason.
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johoare
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« Reply #126 on: October 21, 2019, 03:32:33 pm »

I was just looking through the timetables/RTT and Maidenhead seems to have lost one of it's busiest morning rush hour trains.. Now you might think that is a good thing (no overcrowding if there is no train e.g.  Grin Grin ) but seriously if that is the case it's going to be interesting..

Currently there are is an 8.02 (22 mins) and an 8.06 (24 mins) both which leave overfull and standing daily even though the 8.02 starts at Twyford.

This is is being replaced by just one train - the 8.02 (22 mins) which is coming from Didcot Parkway..

There are now two (instead of one) fast trains at 7.32 and 7.35 so that will help a bit but I have a sneaking suspicion that there may be a big overcrowding problem on that 8.02.
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TonyK
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« Reply #127 on: October 21, 2019, 07:24:57 pm »

I would suspect that there's no physical problem to stopping for passengers at Pilining, but there may be a software one.   If indeed Pilning has been left out of the stopping points programmed in, a corollary question might be if it was looked out as an oversight, or as a conscious decision.

"Pilning Sir? Computer says no."
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patch38
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« Reply #128 on: October 22, 2019, 10:04:43 am »

"Pilning Sir? Computer says no."

"Commuter says ****"
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #129 on: October 22, 2019, 11:11:16 am »

Currently there are is an 8.02 (22 mins) and an 8.06 (24 mins) both which leave overfull and standing daily even though the 8.02 starts at Twyford.

The 08:02 is a 12-car, it's not a train I've had the pleasure of seeing.  Is it really full and standing throughout the whole train, given that it only started at Twyford?  That's 800 or so people on board if it is (based on all seats taken and 10 people standing per carriage). 

Having a longer platform at Maidenhead from December will help spread the passengers out if, as is often the case, part of it has seats available, but if both that and the current 8-car 08:06 are packed then it will cause problems.
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johoare
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« Reply #130 on: October 22, 2019, 03:34:31 pm »

The front is full before it gets to Maidenhead and full and standing as it leaves.. The back couple of carriages are probably just full (but not standing) to be honest after Maidenhead.. 

It's worth standing at Paddington when one of these trains arrives to see how many people actually get off for anyone that doubts it's true.

However it still means a full 12 carriage train and a full 8 carriage train are being replaced by one 12 carriage train which isn't just coming from Twyford anymore. It will be interesting. Not interesting enough for me to try it mind as that just doesn't add up.
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Sixty3Closure
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« Reply #131 on: October 22, 2019, 04:10:08 pm »

The one time I've caught it it was packed and I was really surprised considering its 12 coaches. The train before it, the 07.59? though has been fairly quiet although I'm not on it on a regular basis. The main difference being the timing of the Henley trains.

It may be that if the Henley connection is timed differently you could get a more even spread? Although they're only 3 coaches they can be really busy.

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MVR S&T
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« Reply #132 on: October 22, 2019, 11:15:08 pm »

I wonder how many of those 800 sit in front of a screen all day? could they do that in say, Pewsey instead?
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grahame
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« Reply #133 on: October 23, 2019, 05:09:19 am »

I wonder how many of those 800 sit in front of a screen all day? could they do that in say, Pewsey instead?

A fundamental question - "why are we commuting [so much]".   Switching from car to public transport is - where public transport is a success - usually more climate friendly.   Relaxing hours, so that the rush hour peak is less of a peak - is usually going to be more climate and lifestyle friendly again. Reducing commute distances or even working from home a lot of the time are, yet again, more carbon friendly and should make for a better quality of life (social interaction permitting - "the loneliness of the home worker").

Levelling out passenger flows by time of day, and across the network (even along the journey of a individual train) can / could make a massive difference to loading and to economics.

Pictured - on yesterday's 17:45 from Paddington to Swansea ... as it arrived into Swansea.  And for the absence of doubt, this is one of the front carriages that's coming in close to the station's exit.  Then yesterday's 17:36 from Swindon to Westbury ... as it arrived into Trowbridge.



« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 05:16:28 am by grahame » Logged

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Sixty3Closure
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« Reply #134 on: October 23, 2019, 09:49:29 am »

Personally for me my commute is dictated by the timing of the 'fast' trains. These only run until about 9am in the morning. I'd love to shift my hours but I don't really want to add to my already lengthy commuting time. Later evening trains home are so much better than they use to be (they exist) but still limited and very crowded. Similarly the first 'fast' train home isn't till just before 5 which means when I can get away I tend to wait anyway as that gets me home quicker than an earlier stopping service.

We've also discussed it many times here but more flexible ticketing might encourage better habits. A colleague who comes in from St Albans way has discovered carnet tickets on his line and its transformed his working habits and saved him a lot of money.

Having said that I'm currently working in rural Wales all week and while there's many positives I'm definitely suffering from the 'loneliness of the home worker'. It also makes my job so much harder as while I can VOIP, Zoom and email its still not the same as just going finding someone and having a chat or gathering a couple of people together.
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