Train Graphic
Great Western Passengers' Forum Great Western Coffee Shop - [home] and [about]
Read about the forum [here].
Register and contribute [here] - it's free.
A compromise may be better than your initial idea - [here]
 27/04/2019 - TransWilts AGM
27/04/2019 - Melksham to Swanage trip
28/04/2019 - Melksham to Seaton trip
02/05/2019 - WWRUG - Trowbridge
15/05/2019 - Community Rail in the City
18/05/2019 - RailFuture AGM, Cardiff
Random Image
Train Running @GWR Twitter Acronyms/Abbreviations Station Comparator Rail news GWR co. site Site Style 1 2 3 4 Chat on off
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
April 21, 2019, 02:00:58 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most liked recent subjects
[141] Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion
[121] IETs into passenger service from 16 Oct 2017 and subsequent pe...
[76] "Nationalise to end chaos" - Diane Abbot MP (Sunday ...
[47] Easter Quiz
[37] Where was Red Squirrel?
[24] Sickness and Season tickets
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 [3]
  Print  
Author Topic: East Midlands, South Eastern & West Coast Franchise Updates April 2019  (Read 1026 times)
Electric train
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3082


The future is 25,000 Volts a.c.


View Profile
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2019, 08:10:42 am »

Being the ever sceptical, have the DfT looked with a fine tooth comb for a non compliance as an excuse to boot Stagecoach following the East Coast Fiasco?


I'm not sure that's the case. It sounds as though bidders have (with the exception of Abellio) walked away from the government who changed the goalposts and asked them to take on future increases in pension costs. So, South Eastern has had no "complaint bids" and remains unlet, but the government got luck with East Midlands and Abellio.

I've seen comment that the risks and costs involved could dwarf the expected profits bidders would hope to make. Also, that if the government succeeds in transferring the pension costs, that will itself cause the costs to rise as the train operators are considered by the pensions regulator less secure than the government, so it will demand more money be put into the funds. Just what the bidders are worried about.

So, all rather complicated, but I can see why most bidders seem to have run a mile. I wonder whether Abellio still thinks it has done the right thing, and if the Dutch government thinks so too.   


If you look at Abellio web site and their statement in "The Abellio Way"
Quote
175 years of experience has embedded in Abellio a social duty to passengers which extends beyond the journey on one of our trains, trams or buses. The passenger is at the heart of everything we do. The delivery of safe, reliable and comfortable services is the starting point for every transport provider, but that is not enough for Abellio. Our services must play an integrated role in the socio-economic development of the societies we serve. 
They are perhaps less motivated about profit looks like they are part of NS.  We are more likely to see the likes of SNCF and DB buying into UK railway especially when (if) we leave the EU because will not be able to contest EU state "owned" companies taking up contracts in the UK via the ECJ …………….. that is what taking back control is all about ….. isn't it  Undecided
Logged

Mark Carne 26 June 2015 - "The challenges of delivering myriad improvement projects while still running a railway seven days a week were simply overwhelming".
Lee
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6484

He who laughs last hasn't got all the facts.


View Profile WWW
« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2019, 09:37:29 am »

Stagecoach demands ‘full and transparent explanation’ over pensions ruling - http://railnews.mobi/news/2019/04/15-stagecoach-demands-full-and-transparent.html
Logged

Currently muddling along the Guingamp-Carhaix line

http://twitter.com/research_gwchat
bignosemac
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 16610


Question everything.


View Profile
« Reply #32 on: April 15, 2019, 10:01:45 am »

We are more likely to see the likes of SNCF and DB buying into UK railway

Deutsche Bahn are looking to sell their UK based subsidiary, Arriva.

SNCF do not operate, and have never bid for, franchises in their own right. They've only ever been a minority partner in bids. Their subsidiary Keolis (which they 70% own) operates one heavy rail franchise in the UK, Transport for Wales, but that is a joint 50/50 partnership with Amey. Keolis are also minority partners in Govia, the operators of the Govia Thameslink Railway and Southeastern franchises.

SNCF's involvement in UK heavy rail is very diluted. To the extent that UK listed companies are the majority partner in any venture they are involved in. I don't see that changing.
Logged

Time flies by when you're a driver of a train,
Speeding out of Trumpton with a cargo of cocaine.
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 24656



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #33 on: April 15, 2019, 01:39:35 pm »

See http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=20844.msg262945#msg262945 ... Stagecoach looking at buying Arriva ...
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Member of Melksham Rail User Group, on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest and some more things besides
Lee
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6484

He who laughs last hasn't got all the facts.


View Profile WWW
« Reply #34 on: April 16, 2019, 08:27:43 am »

DfT deadline for pensions explanation is just hours away, with MPs Committee for Work and Pensions also now involved - http://railnews.mobi/news/2019/04/16-dft-deadline-for-pensions-explanation.html
Logged

Currently muddling along the Guingamp-Carhaix line

http://twitter.com/research_gwchat
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 24656



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #35 on: April 17, 2019, 07:35:24 pm »

DfT deadline for pensions explanation is just hours away, with MPs Committee for Work and Pensions also now involved - http://railnews.mobi/news/2019/04/16-dft-deadline-for-pensions-explanation.html

A further update from the same source - https://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2019/04/17-dft-responds-to-stagecoach-demands.html

Quote
THE Department for Transport has responded to the demand from Stagecoach Group for a ‘prompt, full and transparent response to help restore public confidence’ after three franchise bids from the Group were rejected on the grounds that they attempted to reduce pensions risk.

It had been reported that the deadline was 16.00 on 16 April, but Stagecoach has now clarified that the deadline was actually 24 hours earlier, and that a response has been received.

However, the matter appears to be far from settled.

A spokesman for Stagecoach said: ‘We can confirm we have received a letter from the DfT, which we are reviewing in detail. However, we consider the response to our questions to be both vague and incomplete, leaving many of the fundamental issues and concerns raised by ourselves and other parties unaddressed.’

Stagecoach has been told that its bids for East Midlands, South Eastern and West Coast Partnership have all been rejected, because its alternative proposals for pensions were not acceptable to the government.

The full text of the DfT response to Stagecoach has not been published.

It has also been confirmed that Arriva was also barred from bidding for East Midlands, again because it had attempted to reduce the pensions risk, leaving Abellio as the only contender.

Stagecoach has asked that the confirmation of the Abellio award, which would normally follow after a ten-day standstill period, be delayed by a further fourteen days. Again, it is not yet known whether the DfT has agreed to this.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Member of Melksham Rail User Group, on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest and some more things besides
bradshaw
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 492



View Profile
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2019, 08:04:18 pm »

The plot thickens, apparently ‘Stagecoach has called for an inquiry into the way rail franchises are awarded, after details of a bid it submitted were sent to a rival’.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47990807
Logged
LiskeardRich
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 3169

richardwarwicker@hotmail.co.uk
View Profile
« Reply #37 on: Yesterday at 03:36:18 am »

So Stagecoach didn’t comply with the ITT. Doesn’t like it when the DfT called their bluff. Sound like bad losers?
Logged

All posts are my own personal believes, opinions and understandings!
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 24656



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #38 on: Yesterday at 07:00:24 am »

So Stagecoach didn’t comply with the ITT. Doesn’t like it when the DfT called their bluff. Sound like bad losers?

Neither side comes out smelling of roses ... it also strikes me as pretty poor practise to put out an ITT which so many bidders don't copy with that it reduces the bidder pool to an impractically small group (or singleton).  Unless, of course, that decision to write the ITT in that way was or is part of a bigger plan.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Member of Melksham Rail User Group, on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest and some more things besides
Electric train
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3082


The future is 25,000 Volts a.c.


View Profile
« Reply #39 on: Yesterday at 08:40:56 am »

So Stagecoach didn’t comply with the ITT. Doesn’t like it when the DfT called their bluff. Sound like bad losers?

Neither side comes out smelling of roses ... it also strikes me as pretty poor practise to put out an ITT which so many bidders don't copy with that it reduces the bidder pool to an impractically small group (or singleton).  Unless, of course, that decision to write the ITT in that way was or is part of a bigger plan.

Its part of a bigger plan …………. UK Government particularly the flavour we have at the moment want to substantially reduce the Tax payers contribution the Governments view is the railways should be totally self funding; the only public money would be to support a social need.

So the DfT ITT for TOC's and the NR CP6 are more in that vain, the NR CP7 will I am sure have a heavier reliance on the railways seeking external investors; a couple of examples to watch will be East Corydon Stn and Clapham Jcn Stn redevelopment which are being worked on now in readiness for CP7 and 8
Logged

Mark Carne 26 June 2015 - "The challenges of delivering myriad improvement projects while still running a railway seven days a week were simply overwhelming".
Celestial
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 107


View Profile
« Reply #40 on: Yesterday at 09:49:16 am »

So Stagecoach didn’t comply with the ITT. Doesn’t like it when the DfT called their bluff. Sound like bad losers?

So they threatened to sue DfT in 2012 over the loss of the West Coast franchise and were proved right within a couple of days, despite the government protesting otherwise before it admitted it had screwed up.  Bad losers then?

Also, I think I'd be sore if I learnt that my bid details had been passed to the winning bidder two weeks before final bids were due in.  Can the government really be sure that the email attachment wasn't opened, as they say.

Even if they were allowed access to Abellio's computers to check (which I doubt), could forensics spot if an email was opened on a home computer, and the attachment copied onto that computer rather than opened.
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 2 [3]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants