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Author Topic: East Midlands, South Eastern & West Coast Franchise Updates April 2019  (Read 12794 times)
Cava
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« Reply #45 on: May 10, 2019, 09:31:16 »

I think I understand why taking on extra pension responsibility would be bad news for train operators like Stagecoach, but I am struggling to understand why it would be bad news for us, the passengers and taxpayers.

Could someone possibly explain the ins and outs of that for me - Sorry!
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stuving
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« Reply #46 on: May 10, 2019, 10:00:04 »

Site contains correspondence ...

If you read those letters, it's hard to understand the argument - they don't seem to be talking about the same ITT (Invitation to Tender). But I think it's something like this:

  • TOCs (Train Operating Company) have always had to bear their share of any extra funding of their bit of the rail pension scheme (RPS), when a deficit needed repair.
  • The RPS is an unusual scheme, in that all funding - including deficit repair - and any excess to be repaid is split 60/40 with the employees (via their unions). In most sponsored schemes the company bears the whole liability for adequate funding, which is why the pension deficit/surplus appears in their balance sheet.
  • In a "normal" scheme, the deficit repair payments can be much larger than the contributions based on salaries paid. There isn't any way for such one-off payments to happen in the RPS. I imagine that the employees' side could never come up with a large "bung" to the RPS, and TOCs have come to rely on their maximum contribution being effectively capped by that.
  • What's changed is that the pensions regulator (TPR (The Pensions Regulator)) is now telling schemes and sponsors to repair deficits faster - in the past this was often done one a 20-year or longer timescale. They want this done to the RPS too, though note that the size of its deficit is not public information.
  • There are discussions still going on involving TPR, RPS trustees, unions, TOCs (via RDG(resolve)), and maybe DfT» (Department for Transport - about), about faster deficit repair than the current rules of RPS allow for. That might imply new rules (though that's a separate argument).
  • So I can only infer that TOCs are being asked to commit to paying whatever comes out of this negotiation, which is (as Stagecoach are saying) not within their control. It wouldn't be a real negotiation if it was, would it? (Though sponsoring companies do, in the end, generally get their way whatever a scheme's trustees say.)
« Last Edit: May 10, 2019, 10:53:28 by stuving » Logged
Cava
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« Reply #47 on: May 10, 2019, 10:52:10 »

Thanks for doing that stuving, that's great. I hadn't considered a couple of points in there, and it is a lot clearer for me now.

So does that mean bidding for franchises on these terms is like rolling the dice, with operators like Abellio willing to gamble on the outcome of negotiations that could take years, and operators like Stagecoach not willing to risk it?
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grahame
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« Reply #48 on: May 12, 2019, 20:04:31 »

Now Arriva are joining Stagecoach in taking the DfT» (Department for Transport - about) to court.

From The Guardian

Quote
Chris Grayling’s embattled transport ministry faces a second legal challenge over the way the East Midlands rail franchise was awarded, from Arriva Rail, owned by Germany’s state-backed Deutsche Bahn.

Who pays for these legal challenges?
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ellendune
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« Reply #49 on: May 12, 2019, 20:35:19 »

Who pays for these legal challenges?

Depends who wins!
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JayMac
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« Reply #50 on: July 30, 2019, 16:30:20 »

Abellio have today announced an order for 33x 5 car bi-mode Class 80x trains from Hitachi Rail for the new East Midlands franchise.

The trains will be assembled in Newton Aycliffe, County Durham, and enter service in 2022. They will replace the Class 222s and HSTs (High Speed Train) currently used on services between London St Pancras tand the East Midlands.

I think it's worth betting 50p that the 222s will end up with CrossCountry.

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/hitachi-wins-400-million-deal-for-east-midlands-railway-bi-mode-fleet
« Last Edit: July 30, 2019, 17:55:46 by bignosemac » Logged

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« Reply #51 on: July 30, 2019, 17:10:17 »

With rumours of a trolley and no buffet.  Perhaps unsurprising given similar maximum journey times on EMT» (East Midlands Trains - about) services as GWR (Great Western Railway) will have (excluding Cornwall).
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« Reply #52 on: July 30, 2019, 17:59:59 »

Should also allow Abellio East Midlands to reduce journey times moderately too. A whole fleet capable of 125mph rather than currently where the HSTs (High Speed Train) are limited to 110mph.

Abellio plan to introduce cascaded Class 360s, inherited from Greater Anglia and TfL» (Transport for London - about) Rail, on St Pancras-Corby services. This will free up Class 222s for longer distance services, allowing the HSTs to go off lease first.
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« Reply #53 on: August 16, 2019, 19:24:38 »

Sunday 18th August 2019 sees the start of Abellio's East Midlands Railway franchise. The new website address will be:

https://www.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk/
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broadgage
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« Reply #54 on: August 19, 2019, 13:52:19 »

Another batch of 5 car units replacing full length HSTs (High Speed Train), progress I know but still regrettable.
And whilst of course these MIGHT be better specified than the GWR (Great Western Railway) ones, it seems unlikely.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #55 on: August 19, 2019, 14:09:18 »

Four engines instead of three on them I believe?  Presumably due to more high speed running under diesel power than on the GWR (Great Western Railway) fleet.  Shorter length vehicles as well.
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CMRail
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« Reply #56 on: August 19, 2019, 15:27:33 »

33 trains replacing over 50? Some of which are 8 cars in length?

Have I read something wrong??
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stuving
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« Reply #57 on: August 19, 2019, 16:14:19 »

33 trains replacing over 50? Some of which are 8 cars in length?

Have I read something wrong??

Probably - or someone's reading something not said by Abellio EMR» (East Midlands Railway, also known as EMT» (East Midlands Trains - about) (East Midlands Trains) - about). Their own "aren't we going to be wonderful" pitch said:
Quote
Replacement of the entire train fleet with more than 340 carriages. This includes 165 brand new bi-mode intercity carriages (33 trains) linking cities in the North and East Midlands to London St Pancras, and modern diesel trains improving East-West journeys

So we must be waiting for a further order of trains.

The fleet (as defined in the ITT (Invitation to Tender)) is 12 HSTs (High Speed Train), 27 222s (6 of which are 7-car), and 62 1- and 2-car units. The total number of vehicles is about 340.
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stuving
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« Reply #58 on: August 19, 2019, 16:30:30 »

Four engines instead of three on them I believe?  Presumably due to more high speed running under diesel power than on the GWR (Great Western Railway) fleet.  Shorter length vehicles as well.

The ITT (Invitation to Tender) did specify the new fleet should match current timings*, which may be relevant (given there are some hills). With 10 m less train, it's hard to see where an extra engine goes (or even how the existing ones will fit). So far the best guess is to replace one of the transformers with a bigger one at the other end, and put the engine there. But that leaves loads of questions about what other bits go where (motors, converters, all those cables, etc.) and what major design changes need to happen.

But ... I've not seen anything saying the engines are exactly the same ones. And the ITT doesn't call for on-train catering at all -  not even as a promise for the beauty contest.

* In fact, it's not quite that. The ITT said:
5.9.4 ... bidders are required to provide newly-built rolling stock to operate intercity services on the Midland Main Line between London St Pancras and Sheffield/Nottingham in compliance with the applicable Train Service Requirement. This rolling stock must be capable of:
a) Operating in electric mode (to take advantage of electrification infrastructure where this exists);
b) Operating in another mode (including for the whole journey if necessary); and
c) Operating Class 222-timed services from the as-bid TSR1 and TSR2 on the Midland Main Line with no detriment to intermediate and end-to-end journey times.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 16:53:37 by stuving » Logged
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