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Author Topic: Climate change protests to target overground?  (Read 7443 times)
grahame
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« on: April 17, 2019, 11:21:42 am »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-47959207

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Climate change activists aiming to "shut down London" have entered their third day of protests.

Extinction Rebellion protesters have been blocking traffic at Marble Arch, Waterloo Bridge, Parliament Square and Oxford Circus since Monday.

The group said it would disrupt London Overground services on one line after it changed its mind about targeting the Tube network on Wednesday.

Does it make sense to target the overground when it's probably much more climate friendly that buses and much much more so than taxis and cars?

Memories of disruptive activities (threatened or more) in our own area: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=1574
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johnneyw
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« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2019, 11:29:16 am »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-47959207

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Climate change activists aiming to "shut down London" have entered their third day of protests.

Extinction Rebellion protesters have been blocking traffic at Marble Arch, Waterloo Bridge, Parliament Square and Oxford Circus since Monday.

The group said it would disrupt London Overground services on one line after it changed its mind about targeting the Tube network on Wednesday.

Does it make sense to target the overground when it's probably much more climate friendly that buses and much much more so than taxis and cars?

That's the first thing that occurred to me. Seems a bit bonkers to actually target the modes of transport that you are trying to encourage people to use. If this happens it could also be detrimental to the protesters credibility. I still salute the fact that they want to do something though but targeting public transport?
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ChrisB
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« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2019, 11:42:55 am »

quite. And to demand a meeting with Government in order to call off the demos - the Government are on Easter holiday this week!
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2019, 12:13:40 pm »

Now targeting DLR inter alia:

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Cathy Eatburn, 51, said she was taking part for her teenage daughters’ futures.

“I don’t want to be here today and I’m really sorry for the disruption but I feel I have been forced to do this,” she said. “I have two daughters and I can’t sit by while their future is threatened … The government is doing nothing – we have to force them to act.”

The Guardian
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2019, 12:23:06 pm »

They may have a worthy cause but they are behaving like morons. I know of at least 3 blue light ambulance emergency calls yesterday which were delayed by their antics and frankly the Police have better things to do.....now this....."peaceful protest" - close to 300 arrests so far. Right.
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broadgage
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« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2019, 01:58:00 pm »

I have some sympathy with the stated aims of the protesters, but little sympathy with many of the tactics in use.

Attempting to close down electric mass transit is daft, it should be encouraged.
Lets have some protests in favour of specific projects to reduce carbon emissions.

Build more wind turbines
Install more PV.
Build a tidal barrage in the Severn estuary.
Electrify the GWR, and other railways.

In fact all the above have been strongly objected to, quite possibly by the same protesters.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2019, 03:16:00 pm »


In fact all the above have been strongly objected to, quite possibly by the same protesters.

Usual ill thought out protest - "do as I say, not as I do".
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2019, 05:01:49 pm »


In fact all the above have been strongly objected to, quite possibly by the same protesters.

Usual ill thought out protest - "do as I say, not as I do".

These protests are led by 'Extinction Rebellion', who according to their website (here: https://rebellion.earth/the-truth/demands/) have three demands:

Quote
1. Government must tell the truth by declaring a climate and ecological emergency, working with other institutions to communicate the urgency for change.
2. Government must act now to halt biodiversity loss and reduce greenhouse gas emissions to net zero by 2025.
3. Government must create and be led by the decisions of a Citizens’ Assembly on climate and ecological justice.

I can find nothing on their website to suggest that the organisers object to wind turbines, PV, the Severn Barrage or rail electrification. The main thing they seem to object to is what they perceive as government inaction.

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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2019, 05:51:39 pm »

Government inaction? The UK has reduced carbon dioxide emissions more than any other country in the G20 since 2010.
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CyclingSid
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« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2019, 06:09:59 pm »

I thought the main government inaction was Brexit. Or is that government paralysis?
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bignosemac
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« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2019, 06:33:56 pm »

Government inaction? The UK has reduced carbon dioxide emissions more than any other country in the G20 since 2010.

A large part of that reduction is thanks to renewable energy generation. Wind power is now contributing close to 20% of the UK's electricity. Solar generation is approaching 4%. Total renewable energy generation in the UK now stands at 30%. Up from less than 5% fifteen years ago. A remarkable achievement that should be applauded.

That could easily reach 50% by 2030 and with the will of government we could have nuclear solely picking up the balance by 2040. Meaning the UK could be totally free of fossil fuel electricity generation before mid 21st century.

I agree with TG. In this area of policy, governments of the last fifteen years have been far from inactive.

The current protests are misguided.

 
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broadgage
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« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2019, 08:11:59 pm »

I agree that there is nothing AFAIK on the extinction rebellion website that specifically opposes railway electrification or renewable energy infrastructure.
I do however strongly suspect that many of those same protestors would also attend protests such as

"save Goring gap" from railway electrification.
"save the Bristol channel" from tidal power.
"save Exmoor" from wind turbines.

Not that the emphasis is on "saving" this or that, and never on opposing renewable energy or railway electrification.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
sikejsudjek3
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« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2019, 09:04:15 pm »

I suppose that its very difficult to protest in a way that gets noticed without inconveniencing the public to some degree. We should make sure all houses are properly insulated as other nations have done - but how do you protest ? Climbing up someone's loft with some glass fibre is hardly news worthy !

The problem is at the heart of capitalism itself - and changing our priorities away from making 100 people more wealthy than entire nations towards a fairer sustainable future for all isn't something the establishment are prepared to countenance. They will need to be forced into it eventually whether they like it or not. The alternative is that we put private profit first, ignore the consequences and everyone looses.
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broadgage
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« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2019, 09:22:26 pm »

Government inaction? The UK has reduced carbon dioxide emissions more than any other country in the G20 since 2010.

A large part of that reduction is thanks to renewable energy generation. Wind power is now contributing close to 20% of the UK's electricity. Solar generation is approaching 4%. Total renewable energy generation in the UK now stands at 30%. Up from less than 5% fifteen years ago. A remarkable achievement that should be applauded.

That could easily reach 50% by 2030 and with the will of government we could have nuclear solely picking up the balance by 2040. Meaning the UK could be totally free of fossil fuel electricity generation before mid 21st century.

I agree with TG. In this area of policy, governments of the last fifteen years have been far from inactive.

The current protests are misguided.

 

I agree, UK progress towards reducing fossil fuel use has been impressive with a significant percentage of electricity now coming from renewables.
More remains to be done of course, but progress has been made.

Most energy saving or carbon reduction schemes are opposed at least initially. Remember the outrage over plans to ban energy wasting light bulbs ?
And the present outrage over plans to prohibit gas heating in new homes, and by default also ban gas cooking in new homes.
Yet these and other related policies are very needed if carbon emissions are to be reduced.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TaplowGreen
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« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2019, 09:37:10 pm »

I suppose that its very difficult to protest in a way that gets noticed without inconveniencing the public to some degree. We should make sure all houses are properly insulated as other nations have done - but how do you protest ? Climbing up someone's loft with some glass fibre is hardly news worthy !

The problem is at the heart of capitalism itself - and changing our priorities away from making 100 people more wealthy than entire nations towards a fairer sustainable future for all isn't something the establishment are prepared to countenance. They will need to be forced into it eventually whether they like it or not. The alternative is that we put private profit first, ignore the consequences and everyone looses.

If you're going to try to lay the problem at the door of capitalism you may wish to consider that China produces 28% of the World's carbon dioxide emissions....more than the USA, Russia & India combined.
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