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Author Topic: Climate protests in London  (Read 21642 times)
grahame
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« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2019, 10:20:47 pm »

"save Goring gap" from railway electrification.
"save the Bristol channel" from tidal power.
"save Exmoor" from wind turbines.

Not that the emphasis is on "saving" this or that, and never on opposing renewable energy or railway electrification.

"Save" in the regular run of campaign things is about keeping thing as they are ... and there's always an established base of people who like things as they are.  Ironically, this forum was born out of "Save the train" ... though we rapidly moved from a "please freeze as it is" to "look - here is a constructive way".

"Save the planet" strikes me as a bit different in that they're asking for things to be different ... not a comment on their initial research as to how much has been done or who to protest against or how (three big questions), but certainly asking for change for the better.
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eightonedee
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« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2019, 10:25:06 pm »

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I do however strongly suspect that many of those same protestors would also attend protests such as

"save Goring gap" from railway electrification.

Unlikely - they do not seem to have an average age of 70+!

In any event, to be fair to my neighbours in the "Gap", it was not electrification, but what they saw as the intrusive design of the OHL supporting structures. I think there is universal agreement that electrification is a good thing.

I wholeheartedly endorse TG's comments - it is humanity's inability to foresee the adverse effects of its impact on the planet until it's too late. It's been going on since early man helped destroy the soil of large parts of the Middle East and China through ignorance of the effects of early unsustainable agriculture.
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Lee
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« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2019, 10:29:37 pm »

It's probably one of those Channel 4 "hoax" comedies, where the actors behave in ever more opposite ways to how you would expect climate change protestors to behave, until the whole thing becomes so outlandish that the public eventually "rumbles" them. Let's face it, "Extinction Rebellion" is just the right mix of absurd excitement as a tv programme title.

Noel Fielding will be along shortly dressed as a sunflower at Canada Water, I expect.

On "Save The Train", to be fair we never really said "please freeze as it is" - From Day 1 grahame and his volunteers based their case on at least 8 trains in each direction being needed to make a start on levering in the huge growth potential that existed on the TransWilts, and it has been great to see that materialise.
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grahame
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« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2019, 11:56:57 pm »

On "Save The Train", to be fair we never really said "please freeze as it is" - From Day 1 grahame and his volunteers based their case on at least 8 trains in each direction being needed to make a start on levering in the huge growth potential that existed on the TransWilts, and it has been great to see that materialise.

We certainly started with the view that the proposed 2 trains each way was woefully inadequate;   Lee's right in that "please freeze it" - a backward look - was rapidly (within hours!) - changed into a positive look to say "we need an appropriate service".  And then working on the definition of that word "appropriate" - in terms of what the communities needed and would support, in terms of what would fit financially, and would work operationally.  And then to work out the band around the most appropriate that's going to work.   I'll stop there ... otherwise I'll take over this thread off-topic!
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2019, 09:18:40 am »

If Extinction Rebellion's aim is to call attention to their demands, rather than promote or hinder any specific activity, then blocking the Overground and busy mainline stations is quite a good way to do it. Unfortunately for rail travellers.
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« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2019, 09:20:10 am »

I suppose that its very difficult to protest in a way that gets noticed without inconveniencing the public to some degree. We should make sure all houses are properly insulated as other nations have done - but how do you protest ? Climbing up someone's loft with some glass fibre is hardly news worthy !

The problem is at the heart of capitalism itself - and changing our priorities away from making 100 people more wealthy than entire nations towards a fairer sustainable future for all isn't something the establishment are prepared to countenance. They will need to be forced into it eventually whether they like it or not. The alternative is that we put private profit first, ignore the consequences and everyone looses.

If you're going to try to lay the problem at the door of capitalism you may wish to consider that China produces 28% of the World's carbon dioxide emissions....more than the USA, Russia & India combined.
China has not been a communist country for a couple of decades.
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johnneyw
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« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2019, 11:13:49 am »

If Extinction Rebellion's aim is to call attention to their demands, rather than promote or hinder any specific activity, then blocking the Overground and busy mainline stations is quite a good way to do it. Unfortunately for rail travellers.


There is a sad irony in targeting one of the widely accepted solutions to the problem and consequently undermining it's reputation for reliability and robustness with the travelling public.
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2019, 11:22:57 am »

..."peaceful protest" - close to 300 arrests so far. Right.

One of the aims of the protest is to get as many people arrested as possible. Most of those arrested appear to have been sitting in the road - a peaceful activity, albeit rather annoying if you wanted to drive that way.

...China produces 28% of the World's carbon dioxide emissions....more than the USA, Russia & India combined.

China's CO2 emissions have doubled since 2004, whilst the UK's have fallen by around 40% in the same period, and those of the USA have fallen slightly. But then there's methane...

Listening to Greta Thunberg's recent speech to EU leaders (here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWsM9-_zrKo ) it is perhaps understandable that people feel the need to do something; as to whether they're hitting the right targets... history will judge, if there's anyone left to write it.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2019, 11:38:20 am »

If Extinction Rebellion's aim is to call attention to their demands, rather than promote or hinder any specific activity, then blocking the Overground and busy mainline stations is quite a good way to do it. Unfortunately for rail travellers.


There is a sad irony in targeting one of the widely accepted solutions to the problem and consequently undermining it's reputation for reliability and robustness with the travelling public.
Yes. Though I dare say in terms of strict CO2 accountability, regular train travel isn't sustainable either.
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SandTEngineer
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« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2019, 01:53:50 pm »

This popped up elsewhere.  It might be considered a bit political for on here, so if the moderators wish to delete it I won't mind: https://www.desmog.co.uk/55-tufton-street
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2019, 02:57:09 pm »

Meanwhile:

Quote
The University of Bristol is joining with other organisations and institutions across the country and the world to become the first UK university to declare a climate emergency, reaffirming our strong and positive commitment to take action on climate change.

See full press release

The BBC is airing the first of a new documentary series Climate Change – The Facts at 9pm this evening (18th April).
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grahame
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« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2019, 03:05:23 pm »

We are ... drifting ... from the thread topic.  We often do, and I may be minded to split the topic and move some of the stuff in which transport plays a secondary or tertiary role into "and also".   I'm noting that all repsonses to the thread so far have been from frequent posters, so the move wouldn't cut any of you off from your own posts.

Meanwhile: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-47974244

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Three people have been charged over an Extinction Rebellion protest where activists climbed on top of a train.

A man glued himself to a Docklands Light Railway (DLR) train carriage in Canary Wharf while a man and woman were removed from the roof on Wednesday.

Two men and a woman denied obstructing trains or carriages on the railway and were remanded in custody until 16 May.

Police have made further arrests but activists continue to block traffic at four sites around London.
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Timmer
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« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2019, 05:12:41 pm »

When you see video clips like the one attached to this story, you can’t help but think the powers that be a quite happy to let bridges and streets in London remain blocked which had caused no end of problems for those going about their daily lives. Can be hard enough in London as it is.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8888682/cops-rave-extinction-rebellion-eco-warriors-oxford-circus-arrests-commuters-agony/

Talk they are going after Heathrow. When does the government, responsible for law and order in this country, decide enough is enough?

This country is already a laughing stock because of the mishandling of Brexit, now we allow people to close off major roads and bridges in the nation’s capital for days on end with our police dancing and riding on skateboards with the protesters.
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2019, 05:32:49 pm »

When you see video clips like the one attached to this story, you can’t help but think the powers that be a quite happy to let bridges and streets in London remain blocked which had caused no end of problems for those going about their daily lives. Can be hard enough in London as it is.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8888682/cops-rave-extinction-rebellion-eco-warriors-oxford-circus-arrests-commuters-agony/

Talk they are going after Heathrow. When does the government, responsible for law and order in this country, decide enough is enough?

This country is already a laughing stock because of the mishandling of Brexit, now we allow people to close off major roads and bridges in the nation’s capital for days on end with our police dancing and riding on skateboards with the protesters.

It is worth noting that the protesters who climbed onto the roof of a train at Canary Wharf are currently on remand for a month charged with obstructing trains or carriages on the railway by an unlawful act, contrary to section 36 of the Malicious Damage Act 1861. Enough, in that case, was enough.

At the last count 428 people have been arrested for taking part in these protests, and police cells as far away as Luton and Brighton are apparently filling up. I can't see any link between the government's handling of Brexit and the police's handling of peaceful protests. What would you have them do?
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paul7755
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« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2019, 05:54:11 pm »

It is worth noting that the protesters who climbed onto the roof of a train at Canary Wharf are currently on remand for a month charged with obstructing trains or carriages on the railway by an unlawful act, contrary to section 36 of the Malicious Damage Act 1861. Enough, in that case, was enough...
“Remanded in custody for a month” might hopefully act as a warning to those who are in two minds about the possibility of arrest...

Paul
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