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Author Topic: Climate protests in London  (Read 13192 times)
martyjon
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« Reply #120 on: June 03, 2019, 06:38:36 am »

I've got my tin hat on and the chin strap is deployed, my flak jacket is buttoned up and belted so into the affray I go.

I COULDN'T CARE A MONKEYS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING / CLIMATE CHANGE.

Seriously though, when did you see our leader Mrs. TM step off of Eurostar in Brussels or London going to / coming from discussions with European Leaders over Brexit.

In a few hours time she will be greeting an elected man who by virtue of his position is regarded as the most powerful person on this planet of ours. By virtue of that position he has a private Boeing 747 Jetliner in which he flits around the world in and wherever he has to travel more than a mile or so over land he is helicoptered. He also withdrew his country from an International Climate Change Accord, The Paris Accord.

Nearer to home we had the Bath Burgermasters refusing to allow OHL to be erected through their city even though Network Rail had commissioned three designs for simulated Georgian / Victorian overhead ironmongery which were all approved by expert organisations in the field. Perhaps the newly elected Burgermasters might change that.

Even nearer to home, my city, Bristol has a bus service to its Airport and very often whilst sitting on a bench seat in The City Centre munching a meal deal from Tescos, Sainsburys or the Co-Op, I see the A1 Airport bus with only 1 or 2 passengers aboard, and within 10 minutes another A1 to the Airport comes along empty and stops to pick up a solitary passenger at the Forces Recruitment Office stop on the City Centre.

I remember when the bus service to the airport was. I think, the 122 from the Bristol Bus Station to Weston-Super -Mare which ran at a frequency of 1 per every 2 hours. Before that, as a child, I travelled to visit an aunt, who lived at Blagdon, on the bus and we passed RAF Lulsgate and other services passing that location besides the Bristol - Weston service as mentioned, were the Bristol - Blagdon (Chew Valley) Service, the Bristol - Cheddar service and the Bristol - Bridgewater service. There was also the Bristol - Dundry service which turned off the A38 before the airport.

SO why should I give up my jaunts to Glasgow by Easyjet to visit relatives when the people who SHOULD be taking the lead on Climate Change DON'T.

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grahame
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« Reply #121 on: June 03, 2019, 07:09:09 am »

I've got my tin hat on and the chin strap is deployed, my flak jacket is buttoned up and belted so into the affray I go.

...

SO why should I give up my jaunts to Glasgow by Easyjet to visit relatives when the people who SHOULD be taking the lead on Climate Change DON'T.

If we are being let down by those who have been put in a position to take the long term lead for us, then perhaps we should not follow their poor example but
* set good examples ourselves
* suggest workable and practical approaches
* partner with those who may be letting us down, but nevertheless have strong knowledge and skills, as well as pressures and constraint we (as we start at least) may not appreciate
* learn best practise from others - observe and ask "how can this apply"
* be in it for the long term (not just a stunt) and with a strategy
* shout about it too ...

I got into "this business" of campaigning when I felt let down.  And perhaps I have helped achieve a little something; true reward is talking to someone who's life has been changed - once or on a daily basis - by having a better train or bus service.  Without ... perhaps a dozen people I could easily name involved each in their own way ... this would not have been achieved.  And it really needs theist be taken from a local to a national and global scale with (for example) a sharing of best practise.

It is no accident that you are seeing (my) pictures from all over a different region at the moment ....

Thank you for your post, MartyJon - a really question at the end which I have picked up.  You started "I don't care a monkey's about climate change".   You might when it effects you ... but I would love to offer you a carrot to encourage you and everyone to make better use of our planet's resources that suits you too, rather than a stick to berate you for not doing so.   I want you to get on a fairly fast, cheap, electric train at a stop near your home and be  able to end up near your relative's home in Glasgow and that to be the logical best way for you.
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broadgage
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« Reply #122 on: June 03, 2019, 07:24:00 am »

Re post # 120.
I can not agree.
The President of the USA, and most other politicians, do indeed set a very poor example by the profligate use of fuel.

However I do not feel that this justifies similarly wasteful behaviour from the rest of us.

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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
grahame
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« Reply #123 on: June 03, 2019, 05:05:22 pm »

A brief note that I HAVE seen the notify requesting a retitle of this threat to something more relevant to where we are now; also looking at / wondering at a split.  As I'm train-hopping again today, a look at the structure will need to wait as I'm liable to end up loosing my connection in the middle of doing things, which would not be clever.

It terms of setting an example, my trip is a green one as I'm exclusively using trains which are running for other people anyway.  One case where I was the only person getting off a train and no-one got on, but as it was not a request stop, once again I claim my green badge.
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broadgage
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« Reply #124 on: June 04, 2019, 12:06:04 pm »

There may be no practical alternative to air for long-distance travel, but should we be expanding short-haul flights? Would Heathrow need additional capacity if more short-haul flights switched to high speed rail?

The budget for expanding Heathrow is £14BN... how does this investment sit with the climate emergency?
Yes we should be expanding high speed rail to cut back on short haul flights.

We have the Channel Tunnel that opens up most of Europe to the UK but so far little advantage of this has been taken with trains to Amsterdam having only recently started and thatís only one way! Crazy.

Then you have HS2. Look at all the fuss being caused over building that. If you could get London-Edinburgh/Glasgow down to less than three hours then you would stand a chance of eliminating most air travel between London and Scotland.

For what itís worth, I donít see the third runway ever being built at Heathrow. Not now.

Agree, the money should be spent on improving rail.
HS2-------------Yes, we have had years of studies, reviews and consultations, time to get on and actually build it.
More use of Chanel tunnel----------Yes.
And ALSO some relatively minor and incremental improvements to existing routes to improve capacity.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Red Squirrel
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« Reply #125 on: June 04, 2019, 12:42:49 pm »

Agree, the money should be spent on improving rail.

But you can be fairly confident that it wouldn't be...

HS2-------------Yes, we have had years of studies, reviews and consultations, time to get on and actually build it.

Work has already started... which is not to say that it won't be cancelled by the next incumbent at No.10, judging by what they are saying. Again, don't expect the money to be invested in anything more useful than a 1p cut in income tax though.

More use of Chanel tunnel----------Yes.

Out of interest, does anyone know how much spare capacity there is in the Chunnel? I've googled around but not come up with a simple answer...





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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #126 on: September 20, 2019, 09:46:08 am »

I've changed the title of this thread to 'Climate protests in London' to better reflect the fact that these actions are organised by more than one group and effect more than just the Underground.
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TonyK
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« Reply #127 on: September 26, 2019, 12:43:58 pm »

Work has already started... which is not to say that it won't be cancelled by the next incumbent at No.10, judging by what they are saying. Again, don't expect the money to be invested in anything more useful than a 1p cut in income tax though.

Prophetic, yet again, RS!

More use of Chanel tunnel----------Yes.

Out of interest, does anyone know how much spare capacity there is in the Chunnel? I've googled around but not come up with a simple answer...


Interesting question. So far as I can tell from RTT, there is a minimum 24 minute headway between the Eurostar services in each direction, but no mention of the shuttles services. The speed limit is 100 mph through the 31 miles of tunnel, which suggests that there are never two Eurostars in the tunnel in the same direction at the same time. The freight movement figures - albeit from Wikipedia - are of interest. These run at not much more than a third of the volume seen at the peak before the fire some 20 years ago. If it was running at capacity in the heyday and passenger trains have not increase in number, then there are presumably a couple of million paths available annually. A lot of assumptions there, but I haven't found anything else to answer the question.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 02:29:54 pm by Red Squirrel » Logged

Now, please!
broadgage
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« Reply #128 on: October 17, 2019, 01:07:29 pm »

Meanwhile a climate change activist has been forcibly removed from the roof of an underground train, not by TPTB but by a crowd of enraged commuters.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-50079716

Whilst I have some sympathy with the disrupting of carbon intensive air and road transport, to obstruct electric trains seems simply daft, and I have more sympathy with the underground passengers than with the protesters in this case.

There seems to be a growing view that "climate change activist" is simply the latest re-branding of the numerous protest groups that seem to exist primarily to stop people earning a living.
I expect considerable public anger if those passengers who removed the protesters from the train roof, are subjected to the full force of the law, whilst those who climbed onto the train get away with it.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #129 on: October 17, 2019, 01:21:42 pm »

Their justification for halting this DRL train was that it serves the City, which is financing fossil fuel extraction. I feel they could have made a more effective protest by doing something in the City, outside the relevant companies (or on their roofs!). This would also, more importantly, have been less divisive. In other words, I'm afraid they've blown a lot of public support, potential and actual, with this.
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Day return to Infinity, please.
TonyK
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« Reply #130 on: October 17, 2019, 01:39:36 pm »

Yes, a classic own goal. Never mind the City, the underground goes to a lot of other places too, and protesting about public transport isn't going to win converts. Neither, if you saw the BBC morning news, did the "journalist" who was allegedly roughed up while filming help The Cause in any way. To say you are a journalist, then to start spouting the "if we don't climb on train rooves everyone will die" spiel rather puts his impartiality into question. It was also a bit rum of him to complain about how long the police took to arrive, given what they are dealing with across the capital.

The TV footage, by the way, didn't show me anything violent, just a bit of what we like to call "direct action" in these exciting times.
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Witham Bobby
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« Reply #131 on: October 18, 2019, 12:08:00 pm »

Whilst I have some sympathy with the disrupting of carbon intensive air and road transport, to obstruct electric trains seems simply daft, and I have more sympathy with the underground passengers than with the protesters in this case.

There seems to be a growing view that "climate change activist" is simply the latest re-branding of the numerous protest groups that seem to exist primarily to stop people earning a living.
I expect considerable public anger if those passengers who removed the protesters from the train roof, are subjected to the full force of the law, whilst those who climbed onto the train get away with it.

Idiocy of climbing onto a train roof

Idiocy of holding people up on their way to work to earn a living to keep food on their families' tables

These people won't stop until they have us all living in caves and eating turnip skins.

Canning Town was a very silly place to try this stunt (It would be silly anywhere, tbh).  They should have tried their luck at Angel, where the Islingtonist types might just have had a tad more sympathy, and invited the protestors to a sit-down and chat over a lovely soy latte
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broadgage
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« Reply #132 on: October 18, 2019, 12:13:21 pm »

Waiting for someone to try this on a mainline with OHLE.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TonyK
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« Reply #133 on: October 18, 2019, 01:36:26 pm »

Waiting for someone to try this on a mainline with OHLE.


That would give a new meaning to the trendy phrase "carbon footprint".

I have noticed a lot of "toilet not available" mentions in the train running page. Have ER found a new target?
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Now, please!
Red Squirrel
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« Reply #134 on: October 18, 2019, 01:43:30 pm »

Quote
'It has been polarising': tube protest divides Extinction Rebellion

Disrupting London trains was opposed by 72% of activists in poll, but has boosted coverage

The climate protests during which one activist was dragged from the roof of a London Underground train by angry commuters had been discussed within Extinction Rebellion [XR] for weeks.

But it was not until Wednesday morning, when a note was posted on the groupís website, that a decision appeared to have been taken.

In the hours that followed there was a sometimes fractious debate among XR supporters. More than 3,700 people responded to an online poll circulated on the groupís social media networks with 72% saying they were opposed to the action ďno matter how it is doneĒ.

Those findings were fed back to the decentralised groups planning the action on Wednesday afternoon and, according to one source, some backed down while others determined to press ahead.

Those opposed feared the action, taken against what they said were the wishes of the overwhelming majority, would demoralise activists and raised questions about the groupís democratic decision-making processes.

More fundamentally, they argued that the targeting of public transport Ė rather than roads, airports or financial institutions hit earlier in the week Ė confused their message.

Source, and full article: The Guardian

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