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Author Topic: Climate protests in London  (Read 20786 times)
TonyK
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« Reply #135 on: October 18, 2019, 05:59:07 pm »

Quote
'It has been polarising': tube protest divides Extinction Rebellion

Disrupting London trains was opposed by 72% of activists in poll, but has boosted coverage

...

More fundamentally, they argued that the targeting of public transport – rather than roads, airports or financial institutions hit earlier in the week – confused their message.

Source, and full article: The Guardian


And so it did. Locally to me, and separately from any ER protest, there has been a small campaign to close a road used as a rat-run to "stop noisy speeding cars using diesel fuel" to race up the road. I pointed out that the proposed solution would also stop quiet electric cars going slowly.

This is a bit of what has happened in London - a protest to stop the fat cats getting rich on fossil fuels to the detriment of humanity has led to some things which have stopped normal environmentally aware people going about their non-polluting business in a carbon-neutral way. When anyone complains, the stock answer of this being less convenient than having the whole planet turned into a schorched wilderness looks sanctimonious, simplistic, unsympathetic, and not very well thought through. Being a nuisance and treating anyone whose daily journey to work becomes a nightmare as mere collateral damage will lose support amongst the general public. And get you dragged off the train roof, even if you are surprised to find that not everybody shares your view outside of the echo chamber. The mob has tasted blood - the next protester to hold up a commuter train will be brave indeed. Or stupid.

The principal objective is said to be to cause government to act, and that at least is likely to come to pass. Depending on the make-up of the next government, expect a raft of new legislation, along the lines of the Public Transport (Prohibition of Self-Adhesion) Act, Police Cycle Lock Removal Powers Act, and similar. Existing laws cover quite a bit of the disruption, such as interfering with an aircaft, or not sitting down in one when told to. In Bristol, the proseecutors seemed to prefer simpler charges like obstructing the highway to anything that could end up in a 5-day Crown Court trial. It will be interesting to see what happens this time. The Met Police reckon in may be 6 months before they can get back to concentrating on drugs and knife crime in the capital full time.

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Robin Summerhill
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« Reply #136 on: October 18, 2019, 08:21:09 pm »


These people won't stop until they have us all living in caves and eating turnip skins.

Luxury. We used to dream of turnip skins.
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broadgage
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« Reply #137 on: October 22, 2019, 01:25:06 pm »

Waiting for someone to try this on a mainline with OHLE.


That would give a new meaning to the trendy phrase "carbon footprint".

I have noticed a lot of "toilet not available" mentions in the train running page. Have ER found a new target?

I suspect that an exploded protester would cause even more disruption than the famous exploded pigeon. And leave larger carbon footprints.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
grahame
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« Reply #138 on: December 19, 2019, 03:29:05 pm »

Meanwhile a climate change activist has been forcibly removed from the roof of an underground train, not by TPTB but by a crowd of enraged commuters.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-50079716

Whilst I have some sympathy with the disrupting of carbon intensive air and road transport, to obstruct electric trains seems simply daft, and I have more sympathy with the underground passengers than with the protesters in this case.

There seems to be a growing view that "climate change activist" is simply the latest re-branding of the numerous protest groups that seem to exist primarily to stop people earning a living.
I expect considerable public anger if those passengers who removed the protesters from the train roof, are subjected to the full force of the law, whilst those who climbed onto the train get away with it.

From talkRaDIO

Quote
Three Extinction Rebellion protesters who glued themselves to a Docklands Light Railway train at Canary Wharf station have been spared jail.

Cathy Eastburn, 52, Mark Ovland, 36, and Luke Watson, 30, were each given a 12-month conditional discharge for halting the service in east London.

The stunt was part of a series of protests across the capital this spring demanding immediate government action on climate change.

The trio had denied the charges of obstructing an engine or a carriage using a railway on April 17 this year, claiming the stunt was justified because of environmental threat.

The campaign group said it was the first trial linked to its demonstrations to be dealt with in a Crown Court, which has higher sentencing powers than a Magistrates’ Court where protesters have usually been tried.
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TonyK
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« Reply #139 on: December 19, 2019, 06:15:40 pm »

The judge ordered a total of £1766 in costs. Miss Eastburn, who spent a week in prison on remand, must pay £1,166 of that. The conditional discharge means that if they get caught doing anything else wrong in the next year, they will be sentenced for this as well.
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broadgage
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« Reply #140 on: December 20, 2019, 09:41:57 am »

I agree with the verdict of the court. The offences were non-trivial, but also not hugely serious, and the judgement reflects this.
Whilst I have considerable agreement with the concerns and aims of ER, I cant support the disruption of electric public transport, use of which should be encouraged as an alternative to driving a private car.

Does anyone know what happened to the members of the public who removed the protesters from the train roof ? Nothing, I hope.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TonyK
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« Reply #141 on: December 20, 2019, 02:49:06 pm »

I agree with the verdict of the court. The offences were non-trivial, but also not hugely serious, and the judgement reflects this.
Whilst I have considerable agreement with the concerns and aims of ER, I cant support the disruption of electric public transport, use of which should be encouraged as an alternative to driving a private car.

Does anyone know what happened to the members of the public who removed the protesters from the train roof ? Nothing, I hope.

Nothing that I have heard. Any charge would probably be of common assault under s39 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988, possibly assault occasioning actual bodily harm (ABH) under s47 of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861 if more than pride was hurt. Common assault is a summary matter which can only be heard in the Magistrates Court. ABH is triable either way, so can be heard in Magistrates or Crown court. I would be surprised if the Crown Prosecution service proceeded with it, with the police probably finding evidence in the form of witness statements hard to come by, even if they tried.

Some 20 years ago, a noisy 16th birthday party of a neighbour's son spilled out into the road. One young man was taking a leak over another neighbour's garden wall, and got very mouthy with said neighbour when he came out to remonstrate. Moments later, the young man suffered a rapid decrease in potential energy after a punch was thrown, and called the police. A few witnesses seemed to recall the youth throwing the first punch, the other onlookers thought he might have tripped. Neither group could be certain. He was alone by this time, the rest of the party having either gone quietly home or back into the house, and started to shout about how it was all wrong and every was lying because they didn't like him, when an officer suggested with less than subtlety that he went home. He walked off, appearing from a side-street on his moped a few minutes later when he figured the coast was clear. He was stopped at the next corner, breathalysed, and taken away in handcuffs. From this, we learn that public opinion can sometimes sway an outcome.
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