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Author Topic: Dartmouth Park and Ride  (Read 582 times)
grahame
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« on: May 25, 2019, 01:00:06 am »

From Public Transport Experience ...

http://publictransportexperience.blogspot.com/2019/05/daftness-in-dartmouth-1.html
http://publictransportexperience.blogspot.com/2019/05/daftness-in-dartmouth-2.html
http://publictransportexperience.blogspot.com/2019/05/daftness-in-dartmouth-3.html

... for a Park and Ride that's likely to be heavily used by very occasion visitors ... has its issues ...

Quote
I had occasion to use Dartmouth P and R last week, which has been established for many years so I had assumed that it would be a slick, well run operation by Stagecoach. Ha ha!

On arrival by car there are clear signs to pay 5 into the car park machines, collect two tickets, put one on the car and show the second one to the driver on the bus. Easy. That was all done OK, and we then walked to the bus stop and Stagecoach timetable case.

There were two timetables displayed, the 90 which is a Dartmouth Town Service and a 91 which is the P and R route. The timetable for the 91 was dated 2017 and showed various frequencies based around Public Holidays which of course were different for 2019!

Hopeless!

So I could not work out from the 2017 dates whether the frequency was every 20 mins or every 10. Then a Solo on the 90 pulled on to the stop.

We all went to board but the driver said P and R tickets were not valid on the 90 so we were not allowed on (why does it call at the Site and confuse all the customers then?). We waited and a Dart pulled in with 91 on the blind on which we were allowed to travel. It's departure time bore no resemblance to either of the every 20 or  every 10 2017 timetable displayed.

Would you have 5 in coins in your pocket? "Exact money only" according to text elsewhere in this series of posts.

Quote
So, to summarise:-

There is no map showing the correct bus services to Dartmouth
There is no map at all for the 90 Town Service
The Traveline timetable for the 90 is wrong
Stagecoach's OWN timetable for its OWN service 90 is wrong
Daytime 90s now leave from the Park and Ride site ... BUT Park and Ride tickets are NOT accepted
Evening 90s still leave from the Park and Ride site ... AND Park and Ride tickets ARE accepted
Service 3 to Plymouth runs only as far as Kingsbridge

You simply could not make it up! And bus companies wonder why they are losing passengers.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 01:14:40 am by grahame » Logged

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Pb_devon
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« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2019, 08:22:00 am »

This week the new timetable books were issued by Devon County Council. This also says Service 90 is only scheduled via the P&R site in the evenings, confirming the report above.
Service 3 is a through to Plymouth, via Kingsbridge. Many long routes now seem to be split but actually run through - does anyone know why?
 It all seems very confusing!
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grahame
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« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2019, 08:34:44 am »

Service 3 is a through to Plymouth, via Kingsbridge. Many long routes now seem to be split but actually run through - does anyone know why?

To maintain them as local services - ensuring (as I understand it) that they are not subject to long distance tachograph rules for heavy vehicles that were designed for goods vehicles but drafted such that they include bus journeys over a certain length. My understanding is that whilst safety with monitoring driver's hours with a tachograph is sensible, extension to bus services such as Plymouth to Dartmouth would be silly - and this mechanism (which you correctly say is widespread) keeps the services legal and sensible.
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bobm
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« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2019, 11:30:53 am »

A leading Wiltshire councillor also told me recently that such arrangements allow bus companies to collect two lots of compensation for accepting senior bus passes.

Although there are several services in Wiltshire that are shown as split (49 Swindon to Trowbridge at Devizes for example) I have not seen any evidence of people tapping out and back in again so not sure how this is achieved. 
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LiskeardRich
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« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2019, 01:40:53 pm »

Service 3 is a through to Plymouth, via Kingsbridge. Many long routes now seem to be split but actually run through - does anyone know why?

To maintain them as local services - ensuring (as I understand it) that they are not subject to long distance tachograph rules for heavy vehicles that were designed for goods vehicles but drafted such that they include bus journeys over a certain length. My understanding is that whilst safety with monitoring driver's hours with a tachograph is sensible, extension to bus services such as Plymouth to Dartmouth would be silly - and this mechanism (which you correctly say is widespread) keeps the services legal and sensible.

To add to Grahame, a local service route can be a maximum of 50km before a tacho is required.
Operators split routes but run the vehicle through guaranteeing a through service, normally a 5 min stop at the changeover point.
Under domestic rules the full Dartmouth to Plymouth route is well under maximum driving time without a break. They may also change drivers mid route on some routes planned like this.
In Cornwall Truro to Bude sees on some services driver changes at either Summercourt or Wadebridge.
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GBM
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« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2019, 10:03:54 am »

Service 3 is a through to Plymouth, via Kingsbridge. Many long routes now seem to be split but actually run through - does anyone know why?

To maintain them as local services - ensuring (as I understand it) that they are not subject to long distance tachograph rules for heavy vehicles that were designed for goods vehicles but drafted such that they include bus journeys over a certain length. My understanding is that whilst safety with monitoring driver's hours with a tachograph is sensible, extension to bus services such as Plymouth to Dartmouth would be silly - and this mechanism (which you correctly say is widespread) keeps the services legal and sensible.

To add to Grahame, a local service route can be a maximum of 50km before a tacho is required.
Operators split routes but run the vehicle through guaranteeing a through service, normally a 5 min stop at the changeover point.
Under domestic rules the full Dartmouth to Plymouth route is well under maximum driving time without a break. They may also change drivers mid route on some routes planned like this.
In Cornwall Truro to Bude sees on some services driver changes at either Summercourt or Wadebridge.

Penzance to Falmouth route is split at Helston.
Usually runs with same driver, tho' in summer it has been know to change drivers on weird schedules.
The bus blind will show Pz-Helston (legally) even tho' it's going on to Falmouth.
Passengers are also confused - "Are you going to Falmouth?".
A few diehards always display Falmouth and risk the inevitable depot notice going up with wording to the effect that is illegal!
There is a 5 minute layover at Helston but you are always late in, so that layover never happens; and as you let passengers off, you have to board the new ones.  So no layover for the driver (& don't forget to change the blind)!
Likewise in reverse, Helston is the layover (!) and changeover.
As LiskeardR says, it's all to do with EU/DVSA tacho rules, and most FK drivers come under domestic rules.
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jamestheredengine
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« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2019, 02:19:45 pm »

I'm aware of the following route that runs in five connecting sections thanks to this pettifogging regulation:

T4 Cardiff to Merthyr Tydfil, connecting to:
T4 Merthyr Tydfil to Brecon, connecting to:
T4 Brecon to Builth Wells, connecting to:
T4 Builth Wells to Llandrindod, connecting to:
T4 Llandrindod to Newtown

Can anyone find anything that matches or betters this?
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