Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 12:55 28 Mar 2024
* Man held over stabbing in front of train passengers
- How do I renew my UK passport and what is the 10-year rule?
- Easter travel warning as millions set to hit roads
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
28th Mar (1988)
Formal end to carrying coffins by BR (link)

Train RunningCancelled
10:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare
11:16 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
11:23 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
11:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads
11:50 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
Additional 12:07 Bristol Temple Meads to Gloucester
12:15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
12:17 Westbury to Swindon
12:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare
13:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington
13:15 Swindon to Westbury
13:26 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
14:19 Westbury to Swindon
15:14 Swindon to Westbury
Short Run
07:10 Penzance to London Paddington
08:03 London Paddington to Penzance
09:30 Weymouth to Gloucester
10:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids
10:55 Paignton to London Paddington
11:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central
11:41 Bristol Temple Meads to Salisbury
11:48 London Paddington to Carmarthen
12:03 London Paddington to Penzance
12:12 Salisbury to Bristol Temple Meads
12:32 Exeter Central to Okehampton
12:46 Avonmouth to Weston-Super-Mare
13:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
13:07 Salisbury to Bristol Temple Meads
13:10 Gloucester to Weymouth
13:26 Okehampton to Exeter Central
16:19 Carmarthen to London Paddington
Delayed
09:37 London Paddington to Paignton
10:04 London Paddington to Penzance
10:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central
11:29 Weymouth to Gloucester
11:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour
12:27 Okehampton to Exeter Central
12:28 Plymouth to Gunnislake
12:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour
14:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour
PollsOpen and recent polls
Closed 2024-03-25 Easter Escape - to where?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 28, 2024, 12:59:47 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[151] West Wiltshire Bus Changes April 2024
[85] would you like your own LIVE train station departure board?
[58] Return of the BRUTE?
[49] If not HS2 to Manchester, how will traffic be carried?
[46] Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption el...
[36] Reversing Beeching - bring heritage and freight lines into the...
 
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Dartmouth Park and Ride  (Read 1837 times)
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40690



View Profile WWW Email
« on: May 25, 2019, 01:00:06 »

From Public Transport Experience ...

http://publictransportexperience.blogspot.com/2019/05/daftness-in-dartmouth-1.html
http://publictransportexperience.blogspot.com/2019/05/daftness-in-dartmouth-2.html
http://publictransportexperience.blogspot.com/2019/05/daftness-in-dartmouth-3.html

... for a Park and Ride that's likely to be heavily used by very occasion visitors ... has its issues ...

Quote
I had occasion to use Dartmouth P and R last week, which has been established for many years so I had assumed that it would be a slick, well run operation by Stagecoach. Ha ha!

On arrival by car there are clear signs to pay £5 into the car park machines, collect two tickets, put one on the car and show the second one to the driver on the bus. Easy. That was all done OK, and we then walked to the bus stop and Stagecoach timetable case.

There were two timetables displayed, the 90 which is a Dartmouth Town Service and a 91 which is the P and R route. The timetable for the 91 was dated 2017 and showed various frequencies based around Public Holidays which of course were different for 2019!

Hopeless!

So I could not work out from the 2017 dates whether the frequency was every 20 mins or every 10. Then a Solo on the 90 pulled on to the stop.

We all went to board but the driver said P and R tickets were not valid on the 90 so we were not allowed on (why does it call at the Site and confuse all the customers then?). We waited and a Dart pulled in with 91 on the blind on which we were allowed to travel. It's departure time bore no resemblance to either of the every 20 or  every 10 2017 timetable displayed.

Would you have £5 in coins in your pocket? "Exact money only" according to text elsewhere in this series of posts.

Quote
So, to summarise:-

There is no map showing the correct bus services to Dartmouth
There is no map at all for the 90 Town Service
The Traveline timetable for the 90 is wrong
Stagecoach's OWN timetable for its OWN service 90 is wrong
Daytime 90s now leave from the Park and Ride site ... BUT Park and Ride tickets are NOT accepted
Evening 90s still leave from the Park and Ride site ... AND Park and Ride tickets ARE accepted
Service 3 to Plymouth runs only as far as Kingsbridge

You simply could not make it up! And bus companies wonder why they are losing passengers.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 01:14:40 by grahame » Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
Pb_devon
Transport Scholar
Sr. Member
******
Posts: 287


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2019, 08:22:00 »

This week the new timetable books were issued by Devon County Council. This also says Service 90 is only scheduled via the P&R (Park and Ride) site in the evenings, confirming the report above.
Service 3 is a through to Plymouth, via Kingsbridge. Many long routes now seem to be split but actually run through - does anyone know why?
 It all seems very confusing!
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40690



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2019, 08:34:44 »

Service 3 is a through to Plymouth, via Kingsbridge. Many long routes now seem to be split but actually run through - does anyone know why?

To maintain them as local services - ensuring (as I understand it) that they are not subject to long distance tachograph rules for heavy vehicles that were designed for goods vehicles but drafted such that they include bus journeys over a certain length. My understanding is that whilst safety with monitoring driver's hours with a tachograph is sensible, extension to bus services such as Plymouth to Dartmouth would be silly - and this mechanism (which you correctly say is widespread) keeps the services legal and sensible.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
bobm
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 9809



View Profile
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2019, 11:30:53 »

A leading Wiltshire councillor also told me recently that such arrangements allow bus companies to collect two lots of compensation for accepting senior bus passes.

Although there are several services in Wiltshire that are shown as split (49 Swindon to Trowbridge at Devizes for example) I have not seen any evidence of people tapping out and back in again so not sure how this is achieved. 
Logged
LiskeardRich
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 3457

richardwarwicker@hotmail.co.uk
View Profile
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2019, 13:40:53 »

Service 3 is a through to Plymouth, via Kingsbridge. Many long routes now seem to be split but actually run through - does anyone know why?

To maintain them as local services - ensuring (as I understand it) that they are not subject to long distance tachograph rules for heavy vehicles that were designed for goods vehicles but drafted such that they include bus journeys over a certain length. My understanding is that whilst safety with monitoring driver's hours with a tachograph is sensible, extension to bus services such as Plymouth to Dartmouth would be silly - and this mechanism (which you correctly say is widespread) keeps the services legal and sensible.

To add to Grahame, a local service route can be a maximum of 50km before a tacho is required.
Operators split routes but run the vehicle through guaranteeing a through service, normally a 5 min stop at the changeover point.
Under domestic rules the full Dartmouth to Plymouth route is well under maximum driving time without a break. They may also change drivers mid route on some routes planned like this.
In Cornwall Truro to Bude sees on some services driver changes at either Summercourt or Wadebridge.
Logged

All posts are my own personal believes, opinions and understandings!
GBM
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1468


View Profile Email
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2019, 10:03:54 »

Service 3 is a through to Plymouth, via Kingsbridge. Many long routes now seem to be split but actually run through - does anyone know why?

To maintain them as local services - ensuring (as I understand it) that they are not subject to long distance tachograph rules for heavy vehicles that were designed for goods vehicles but drafted such that they include bus journeys over a certain length. My understanding is that whilst safety with monitoring driver's hours with a tachograph is sensible, extension to bus services such as Plymouth to Dartmouth would be silly - and this mechanism (which you correctly say is widespread) keeps the services legal and sensible.

To add to Grahame, a local service route can be a maximum of 50km before a tacho is required.
Operators split routes but run the vehicle through guaranteeing a through service, normally a 5 min stop at the changeover point.
Under domestic rules the full Dartmouth to Plymouth route is well under maximum driving time without a break. They may also change drivers mid route on some routes planned like this.
In Cornwall Truro to Bude sees on some services driver changes at either Summercourt or Wadebridge.

Penzance to Falmouth route is split at Helston.
Usually runs with same driver, tho' in summer it has been know to change drivers on weird schedules.
The bus blind will show Pz-Helston (legally) even tho' it's going on to Falmouth.
Passengers are also confused - "Are you going to Falmouth?".
A few diehards always display Falmouth and risk the inevitable depot notice going up with wording to the effect that is illegal!
There is a 5 minute layover at Helston but you are always late in, so that layover never happens; and as you let passengers off, you have to board the new ones.  So no layover for the driver (& don't forget to change the blind)!
Likewise in reverse, Helston is the layover (!) and changeover.
As LiskeardR says, it's all to do with EU» (European Union - about)/DVSA tacho rules, and most FK (First Corridor (carriage)) drivers come under domestic rules.
Logged

Personal opinion only.  Writings not representative of any union, collective, management or employer. (Think that absolves me...........)
jamestheredengine
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 301


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2019, 14:19:45 »

I'm aware of the following route that runs in five connecting sections thanks to this pettifogging regulation:

T4 Cardiff to Merthyr Tydfil, connecting to:
T4 Merthyr Tydfil to Brecon, connecting to:
T4 Brecon to Builth Wells, connecting to:
T4 Builth Wells to Llandrindod, connecting to:
T4 Llandrindod to Newtown

Can anyone find anything that matches or betters this?
Logged

Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page