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Author Topic: So are they really a *xxxx* employer  (Read 14362 times)
12hoursunday
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« on: March 23, 2008, 13:25:20 »

In a recent posting someone claimed that FGW (First Great Western) were in fact a [poor] employer (his/her words not mine [word not acceptable and changed])

Quote
  i too work for fgw but these days i have very little loyalty to them as to be honest they are [poor] to work for and do not value their staff.
so i am baffled why 12hoursunday seems to be so loyal to them?

I for one would be intrested to read on this forum other member of staffs views on this statement!

From where I stand as an employee First happen to be a better than the average type of employer and I'll list some of the reasons why I think this.

Pay... It's fair to say that the biggest reason anyone goes to work is because someone pays you to do it. Rates of pay in my view are not at all bad on average across the region. Customer Hosts Platform staff and Cleaners earn a basic of over ^15000 with OTE in excess of 20 grand achievable. Shunters, Guards and Drivers earn quite a bigger wedge that this.
Pensions... The railway pension scheme is the envy of great number of people from outside the industry.
Travel...An employee can travel the FGW franchise area for ever and day without paying a penny for doing so ( couldn't be done under BR (British Rail(ways)) as then an employee only had a set number of 'free' journeys). Also there is free and discounted travel throughout europe to take advantage of.
Share ownership...A large number of employees have taken up the SAYE and BAYE schemes and many have made a killing doing so. A company doesn't have to offer such schemes to it's employees. Some have earned themsevles an extra 15 to 20 grand over the past 3 or 4 years!
Holidays..Generous to say the least compaired with other industries.
Rest Days.. I don't much about other grades but as a driver I get 104 rest days a year. I know to get these my shifts are longer, but if I am coming to work for 7 hours then I just as well come for 9 and a half or 10 hours per day. Also if I so wish I can chose to work an extra restday or 4  Grin to earn that extra bit of dosh I sometimes require.

So to sum up I.............

1 Earn a good salary
2 Have a good set of travel benefits
3 Can if I want take over half a year off 32 days holiday + 52 Sundays ( I don't have to work them) + 104 Rest Days = a total of 188 days
4 Can earn extra cash through share ownership and the working of extra hours in the way of overtime and restday work if I feel fit.

All in all not bad for a [poor] employer eh!

I agree with vacman in that they don't like slackers and are on top of them because they are slackers. I come to work do my job have a bit of banter and a grin with all the other grades then go home. I don't get bothered or harrassed by the managment for doing so.

]I have removed a personal comment from here, as it is was posted against the rules of the forum which allow you to disagree with each other but not to start hurling insults! - Graham E

Edits in italics made by Grahame to bring this item into line with posting rules


« Last Edit: March 23, 2008, 14:05:46 by grahame » Logged
grahame
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« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2008, 13:46:47 »

In a recent posting smithy claimed that FGW (First Great Western) were in fact a **** employer (his/her words not mine)

You may not have noticed, 12hoursunday, but I locked that other thread because of personal insults and mudslinging that you started there, and I also sent you a personal message reminding you again of the etiquette for posting here.   I'm sorry, but language of this sort is NOT acceptable which is why the other thread was closed, even if you try to sidestep the etiquette by saying "he said it first"; that still doesn't make it acceptable. Neither are personal accusations / suggestions.

I am going to go back and clean up the wording used in your post, but leave the thread open.    There IS a highly interesting point here in that First Great Western are running fewer services than Wessex Trains did in this area, they are telling us they are recruiting and traiining very large numbers of staff ... and yet there are still staff shortages. So I wonder what the wastage level is and why.

« Last Edit: March 23, 2008, 14:07:12 by grahame » Logged

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Andy W
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« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2008, 14:59:58 »

"as a driver I get 104 rest days a year. I know to get these my shifts are longer, but if I am coming to work for 7 hours then I just as well come for 9 and a half or 10 hours per day"

Lorry drivers / pilots etc have a limit to the number of hours they can work on grounds of safety. This implies that there are no restrictions on train drivers. Is that correct?
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Tickets Please
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« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2008, 16:20:01 »

far from it - all safety critical railway staff working hours are governed by the findings of Lord Hidden (also some non safety critical grades as well)

ASLEF» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) Local Reps (same with guards) actually compile the depot rosters and ensure the work that each driver / guard does in that day complies with rostering agreements and terms and conditions.

drivers can only have so much time 'in the seat' and have PNB (Personal Needs Break)'s (physical needs breaks) which have to be taken at certain points in the working day.




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mada
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« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2008, 17:01:08 »

[word not acceptable and changed]
Edits in italics made by Grahame to bring this item into line with posting rules

Looks like 12HourSunday hasn't been using Newspeak again  Roll Eyes

Doubleplusgood moderation there.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2008, 17:11:20 by mada » Logged
Lee
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« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2008, 18:36:58 »

[word not acceptable and changed]
Edits in italics made by Grahame to bring this item into line with posting rules

Looks like 12HourSunday hasn't been using Newspeak again  Roll Eyes

Doubleplusgood moderation there.

For those who missed it, here are grahame's reasons (backed by the moderation team and perfectly valid) for editing 12hoursunday's post :

In a recent posting smithy claimed that FGW (First Great Western) were in fact a **** employer (his/her words not mine)

You may not have noticed, 12hoursunday, but I locked that other thread because of personal insults and mudslinging that you started there, and I also sent you a personal message reminding you again of the etiquette for posting here.   I'm sorry, but language of this sort is NOT acceptable which is why the other thread was closed, even if you try to sidestep the etiquette by saying "he said it first"; that still doesn't make it acceptable. Neither are personal accusations / suggestions.

I am going to go back and clean up the wording used in your post, but leave the thread open.    There IS a highly interesting point here in that First Great Western are running fewer services than Wessex Trains did in this area, they are telling us they are recruiting and traiining very large numbers of staff ... and yet there are still staff shortages. So I wonder what the wastage level is and why.

The topic remains open for forum members to express their views on what grahame rightly says is a highly interesting point.

For those who wish to discuss 1984, the forum link below may be of interest.
http://www.online-literature.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=1002
« Last Edit: March 23, 2008, 18:42:08 by Lee Fletcher » Logged

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mada
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« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2008, 18:52:35 »

"You have not converted a man because you have silenced him." -John Morley
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grahame
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« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2008, 20:51:03 »

"If First Great Western are running no more trains with the 14s/15x fleet than Wessex Trains ran, and no more trains that they bid for in the summer of 2005, why on earth - three years later - are there staff shortages? Did they get rid of too many? Did they find that there is much more natural wastage than they could have anticipated? Did they expect the staff to put in far more overtime that they're prepared to do for the Company? Were they hoping to get away with a far higher cancellation level that the South West public and publicity are allowing? Did they simply get the forecasts wrong?   Have new Health and Safety rules meant far less efeective use of staff than had been planned for?  Are there enough staff, but something has gone wrong with the rostering system?"

It seems very curious to me - very curious indeed - that coming up for the second anniversary of the franchise, we're still hearing about lots of staff being taken on and trained ...

Given such questions, it's only natural that emotions will run high, and at times spill over into personal jibes and insults. Such is human nature.  Indeed, the fact that it spills over this way shows just HOW important it is to people! That's why I've been reluctant - very reluctant - to administer and moderate with more than the gentlest of touches, even if the "how good are FGW (First Great Western) to work for" topic is only indirectly related to passenger issues which are this board's stated aims.   But there are numerous reasons that I have to step in occasionally, blow a whistle, and wave a yellow or red card.

1. There's the legal issue - if it is brough to my attention that a particular post may contravene any one of a whole series of laws, from decency to copyright, and from libel to incitement, it is my responsibility to act on it. I cannot let individuals or entities be called "fools" or "crap", even though I can allow a train service to be describes as "crap" - we have such to Melksham.

2. The forum exists for customers of FGW, or wannabe customers - and whilst that forms the basis of our existence, staff giving good knowledgable answer, or staff discussing points of view civilly is a welcome extension.  But anyone (including staff) calling each other - or other posters, or the unregistered readership names / hurling personal insults at them is not acceptable; that's always been our stated policy.  And - human nature again - pulling the protagonists apart doesn't always result in them calming down; sometimes it just causes a pause and then we see them swing a crafty fist at each other again hoping I won't notice.   Well - I might not, but others do and let me or the moderators know.

3. We have a fabulous team of moderators here, who give freely of their time to help make this a really useful place for the majority of us.   It's totally unfair on them for a tiny minority to make their life difficult by breaking the rules that we have clearly laid down, or seeing how far they can stretch the envelope.  I have little time for people who don't show the same consideration for the moderators that they themselves would wish to be shown if they were in a volunteer position.

Isn't it ironic?  The strong emotions laid bare by this topic have lead to the loss of at least one member who I see is now of "guest" status.  Which shows just how important topics like this are to people.   I wish Mada well - sad to see him go. But at the same time I look forward to seeing this forum developing forward and helping us towards a greater understanding of train services (or lack of them) in this neck of the woods, and how they can be improved to an adequate level; I feel (and so do the other moderators, with whom I havd discussed this) that this can be better achieved within the guidelines we have.

Let's face facts - if I had felt that 2 trains a day,at 06:18 and 18:45 from Swindon, to my home town of 24000 people was appropriate, and that a return fare to London of over 115 pound for the 100 miles if bought on the day was reasonable, then this board would not exist.  If I hadn't found the vast majority agreeing with me, it would not exist.  There is something very wrong with a setup that cuts services by 60%, and increases fares three fold.  I look forward to the day that we can all agree that First - or some other Train Operating Company - are doing a job that's providing what the customer wants.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2008, 07:47:47 by grahame » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2008, 09:24:03 »

Couldnt agree with you more 12 hr Sunday......and yes i think FGW (First Great Western) are an ok to work for, as for the reasoning as to staff shortages as Grahame mentions, i really dont know, my own view is that comming up to the Franchise change Wessex didnt want to recruit, and when FGW got it they were slow to recruit coupled to that natural wastage..and hey presto a problem. also there is a national shortage of skilled people to fill the fitters vacancies, try looking in the local rag and mechanic type jods are plentiful
Cant find people leaving because FGW because they have found a better employer more the fact they are getting promoted to better jobs.
Find it odd that grahame states he finds this thread not that relevant to this site, i disagree because if FGW are good or bad to work for it must have a direct impact on the service the customer gets, i thought this site had risen above the FGW bashing of others and wished to portray a more balanced view.
Incidentally it seems there are a few more anti Toc sites about for other operators, so for the disgruntled amongst you remember you are not alone
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« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2008, 10:02:59 »

Find it odd that grahame states he finds this thread not that relevant to this site, i disagree because if FGW (First Great Western) are good or bad to work for it must have a direct impact on the service the customer gets, i thought this site had risen above the FGW bashing of others and wished to portray a more balanced view.

Indeed - I do hope that this site HAS risen above the bashing and name calling on all side, although at times that discussions get heated that's quite a tough one to hold to.   It's quite a struggle at times, but we are very much looking for a knowledgable concensus and good discussion and NOT for slanging matches, name calling, or anyone-bashing.

Let me re-phrase my comment that you found to be odd, dogbox - the thread goes into a very important background topic behind the services offered to passengers and I am delighted to cover these wider issues and learn the real situation.   In real life, I find that I can personally forgive / forget / put up with a lot if I understand the reasons and logic for something; a cancelled train for no stated reason is far worse than a train cancelled because of a member of the crew being taken ill.
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« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2008, 10:51:22 »

I don't work for FGW (First Great Western) but know a lot of people who do, and whilst 12hoursunday lists 4 points why First are a good company to work for, the items listed would apply under NEX (National Express - parent company of Wessex Trains), stagecoach or any other company.

Questions are asked why FGW are so short of staff to run no more trains than ran in Wessex days,
I'll give two reasons.

1, Under Wessex Train Crews often run a service for a shift, ie running 5 or 6 trips on the Truro Falmouth Branch.
FGW don't like this type of repeat working so during the Day the Falmouth branch may see 7 or 8 different Train Crew diagramed, with Drivers working totally different turns to the Conductor!
This might seem a good idea, but it means train crew spend much more time travelling about on short runs from working to working or even worse much more time is spent travelling "on the cushions" (as a Passenger)
All this mucking about with diagrams mean less production from train crew, it also makes the whole system more likely to suffer from cancelled trains when a member of train crew is in the wrong place due to delays etc.
The Train crew shortage has in many aways been brought about by bad Train Crew planning.

2 Due to all the hastle felt by passengers with overcrowded trains, cancelled trains, delayed trains the poor conductors, and to a less effect the Drivers have got it in the Neck from irrate passengers, so as a member of train crew would you want to put yourself up for more hassle on overtime, in many cases Train Crew won't work O/T that they would have in the past.

Let it be remembered that a good company to work for looks after its Staff, so far FGW through all the problems that have MADE FGW the Worst preforming TOC (Train Operating Company), have Failed to look after it's staff, so untill FGW are up with the Rest of the TOCs for preformance, they can't be a Good company to work for, not that this makes them a Bad company to work for.
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Lee
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« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2008, 12:05:44 »

i thought this site had risen above the FGW (First Great Western) bashing of others and wished to portray a more balanced view.

I would just like to add that, in my role as a Coffee Shop Global Moderator, when I do my round-up of the various FGW-related articles, press releases etc, I always aim to ensure that there is a mix of such items. This (in my view) helps to ensure that pro-FGW, anti-FGW and all points in between are reflected on the forum.

Of course, there will be times when (for example) the media are almost universally producing articles that dont portray FGW in the best of lights, but there's not a lot I can do about that. To me, it would be worse not to post the articles, and thus deny forum members their right to comment on them. You will also notice that I post the FGW response to negative points raised in such articles, where this is provided.

Personally, I feel that Coffee Shop is a very balanced forum, and I dont think that anyone can deny that a wide range of views are reflected.
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« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2008, 19:29:19 »

in response to other posters comments yes the pay and benefits are good under fgw however if it was still wessex it would be the same as nothing has changed we have not been harmonised.
on the flip side look at plymouth platform staff who are ex fgw are on about 3 grand more than the ex wessex platform staff doing the same job?
in fact all grades from ex wessex are less than ex fgw,we are 2 years in to the franchise and are still waiting on harmonisation,in my opinion this is not treating the staff well.

the staff shortages i feel were of fgw's own making,they thought they could save money by not recruiting staff when people left/retired in the early part of franchise.
plus there are a lot of people off sick,some people think this is down to all the turns being longer than under wessex.

obviously just my opinions so feel free to disagree
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« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2008, 19:59:21 »

smithy, thanks for your comments.

I (indeed, the whole moderation team) was sorry to see this particular discussion getting quite personal: your opinions are perfectly valid, and I'd really like to encourage further positive debate on this subject.

So, to everyone out there: do you have any ideas on how to address this problem of staff shortages, low morale, and lack of team spirit (all of which will affect how FGW (First Great Western) are perceived by their customers)?

Chris  Smiley
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« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2008, 23:46:27 »



1, Under Wessex Train Crews often run a service for a shift, ie running 5 or 6 trips on the Truro Falmouth Branch.
FGW (First Great Western) don't like this type of repeat working so during the Day the Falmouth branch may see 7 or 8 different Train Crew diagramed, with Drivers working totally different turns to the Conductor!
This might seem a good idea, but it means train crew spend much more time travelling about on short runs from working to working or even worse much more time is spent travelling "on the cushions" (as a Passenger)
All this mucking about with diagrams mean less production from train crew, it also makes the whole system more likely to suffer from cancelled trains when a member of train crew is in the wrong place due to delays etc.
The Train crew shortage has in many aways been brought about by bad Train Crew planning.


Let it be remembered that a good company to work for looks after its Staff, so far FGW through all the problems that have MADE FGW the Worst preforming TOC (Train Operating Company), have Failed to look after it's staff, so untill FGW are up with the Rest of the TOCs for preformance, they can't be a Good company to work for, not that this makes them a Bad company to work for.
As for the "repetetive working", it was the RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) that insisted on less repetetive diagrams, i.e. under Wessex the early St Ives turn on a Saturday involved the guard doing around 13 trips! (26 single journeys) which affected the concentration of drivers and guards, First group TOC employees get the best travel facilities, unlimited for the individual TOC you work for (FGW), 10 days free travel on all other First TOC's, and ^5 family and friends tickets where you can take up to four people with you for ^5 per day! FGW are actually above NXEC (National Express East Coast) for performance most of the time,smokey, you seem to have some personal vendetta against FGW and you may have your reasons but they have not failed to look after me as an employee.
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